The “agents” always swear the rules are the same everywhere even though I was just in the other airport a few hours ago and no they aren’t!
“This is how it’s always done, sir… on the second Tuesdays of months with an even number of days and for the full duration of Toyotathon. Now don’t make me repeat myself: laptop under the bag and over the shoes or we cavity search you.”
Oh gosh, that’s my bad. I forgot we were in Toyotathon; I thought Happy Honda Days had started already!
They overlap every 7 years but only for 6 days
Isn’t it always toyotathon? Did I just realize the scam?
The Random Antiterrorism Measure (RAM) program uses random, multiple security measure that change the look of an installation’s force protection program and introduce uncertainty to defeat surveillance attempts and make it difficult for a terrorist to accurately predict security actions.
“A unit could conduct random antiterrorism measures by checking parking lots, conducting bag checks and ID cards in locations where that is not the normal security posture,” said Ann Moree, security manager, DPTMS.
This is basically what’s going on. The theory is that by making changes to the process it will be more difficult for someone to plan a way to defeat it (not really true, as several TSA pentests have shown).
There’s also this classic quote attributed to a German general during WWII:
War is Chaos, and the reason why the American Army excels at War is because they practice Chaos on a daily basis.
It may look like the front-line guys have no idea what’s going on, and that might actually be true. If they have no idea what’s going on, neither will anybody observing their activities.
I had not considered that. It sounds like it’s actually a sound precaution, or would be if TSA weren’t so incredibly incompetent and the threat so exaggerated.
Yeah I’m not sure how useful it is in practice - possibly not at all - but at least some of it is intentional and not completely the result of poor management.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if some of the apparent incompetence was intentional… but that’s just speculation.
I think this kind of reasoning just desperately tries to find reason in insanity.
You’re basically implying that the coordinated uncertainty is so incredibly good at being covert, that it’s absolutely indistinguishable from underpaid incompetence and power tripping pettiness.
Maybe I’m not giving enough credit to government agencies, but actual incompetence and artisanal pettiness seem to be more likely to me than a planned behavior.
I’ve always thought this was a fundamental floor in their logic. Since they don’t have bomb detectors at the entrances to the building, it’s all a bit irrelevant anyway since if I’m trying to take down a plane full of people I can blow them up just as easily in the airport as I can in the air.
They all collect together at the TSA line anyway.
Maybe it is as you say the government incompetence and the artisanal pettiness that are the planned behavior, knowing it leads to this randomization.
That would matter if ‘screwing up’ had any bearing on the outcome, which isn’t the case because the TSA is just security theater. If they mix up the order and the result is just making you do whatever the thing is, then it is just wasted time with the same end result and security is NOT improved.
This is just incompetence and shitty training.
Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion man.
In all seriousness though, I’m not saying that RAM is effective in any measurable way. I’m saying that it’s part of the SOP and helps explain some of what people experience as apparently inconsistent behavior from the TSA.
It makes sense in theory to deter someone planning something sketchy. But if that’s the purpose, they should try to make it known to everyone.
Basically, the agents should be telling everyone - “yes, the procedure can change every time”, so the potential villain scouting out the procedures would think “oh man, I thought I got it figured out, but what if tomorrow they change the rules?”
If they instead keep insisting “you should know this, it’s the same every time”, the potential villain is more likely to feel confident in their preparation and go ahead.
The other problem is TSA agents seem to massively overestimate how often people use air travel and how uncommon it is for like 95% if the population.
If the rules are the same everywhere, they would do what every other competent place that has procedures that need to be followed does, and post them at the front. The fact that a TSA bitch has to stand there and tell you what to do means they’ve already failed.
Yes, they are. The rule is: No matter what you do, you’ll be called a dumb bitch.
This rule is universal and the whole point of the TSA.
They seem to relax the rules when it’s really busy… Like wait… Isn’t that when an attack would be the most dangerous meaning security would be even more important rather than less?
Goes to show how pointless most of it is.
We have always been at war with Oceana
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I have pre-check, which means I get to keep belt, shoes, and jacket on. Except one random time when this butthead TSA agent insisted I remove my jacket. I fought him on it, but he was an arrogant guy. Read your own rules dumb, dumb.
Also, they obsess over my bottle of contact solution regularly — wipe it down for bomb residue and everything, even though it is allowed. But, somehow I’ve accidentally slipped through with pocket knives and zippo lighters that were at the bottom of my bag. But, don’t you dare forget to empty your water bottle.
I just don’t bother taking out small bottles of liquid for the last quite a few years and no one has cared or even noticed
I had a bag of jelly babies in my carry-on at one point, probably left over from the last time I used the bag. So way out of date, and they got super upset about that. But missed the nail clippers that normally they object to.
Same, fuck that 3-3-1 bullshit.
I use the same laptop bag for several trips a year, so I often don’t clear out all the pockets. The other day I realized I’ve been flying back and forth with a lighter I got from Vegas 2 years ago because it was buried at the bottom of a pocket. As for why the hell I had it in my laptop bag in the first place, I have no idea.
Because it’s all nothing but a circus.
a YouTuber I watch once had a spent bullet casing at the bottom of his bag for YEARS and tsa found it after he went on like 10 flights with it
If that was your carry-on, it probably didn’t get flagged because lighters are allowed.
Lighters are allowed
Zippos only if they’re empty. Who had empty zippos without lighter fluid?
The phrasing on the TSA website suggests that lighters with fluid are permitted in your carry on, just not your checked. This is also in line with the policy in Canada.
Whether the particular TSA agent you’re stuck dealing with actually knows their guidelines, well… don’t hold your breath, they also get pissy about frozen water bottles (which also are allowed).
I love the frozen water bottle work around
Well everyone knows water isn’t explosive when cold.
Last time I flew I started taking my electronics out of my carry-on (which was filled with a ridiculous amount of electronics) and a TSA agent told me to stop. I showed her inside the bag and said “you’re not gonna be able to see everything unless I take it out” and she just rolled her eyes and repeated herself. Then they had to take my bag and individually swipe everything for bomb residue because they weren’t able to see everything with the scanner…
Well, I hope you’ve learned your lesson
The lesson that the TSA will just say things and ignore reason?
The lesson is that you know it’s a sham, the TSA knows it’s a sham, but you’re intent in following through
You sound like you didn’t learn the lesson. Tut.
If the lesson is supposed to be that I should put the electronics in my checked bag, then no. I’d rather keep them in the bag I have with me.
Your inability to read sarcasm would make me search your bags, too.
Cool I see you’re doing your part to make sure our society mistrusts and discriminates against autistic people whenever possible
I don’t understand why they don’t have a sign at the entrance to security to tell you what to expect. Or, when it changes by which line you go to, why they don’t have a sign indicating the differences between lines.
Instead, they wait for someone to make a mistake, then yell out their mistake like “ALL ELECTRONICS MUST COME OUT OF YOUR BAG” at the same time as someone the next line over is yelling “ELECTRONICS DO NOT NEED TO COME OUT OF YIUR BAGS”.
TSA is infuriatingky inconsistent and incomprehensible, even for someone who travels frequently.
This is due to the scanners.
Newer scanners don’t need electronics out, older ones do.
Unfortunately, they don’t replace them ALL at an airport at the same time, leading to inconsistency…
My current major airport I fly through doesn’t open pre check until 9am, which is a pain, cause I have to print a paper ticket to get my precheck privileges in the normal lines
Which causes chaos cause I don’t have to do things others do
Wow that makes so much sense.
Yes the croissants! I’m always happy when I see those.
TSA is just a pork barrel jobs program. Nothing more.
If only those jobs could be doing something useful for society…
Literally anything else would be more productive and probably less annoying too.
Sometimes they do have signs, but then they don’t do what the sign says.
every time I go through TSA it says “anomaly detected” at my waist and I need to be patted down. I’m trans so… correct I guess.
straight out of papers please
Hi! I used to get to second base with the TSA every time. Apparently the machine has issues with loose fit clothes or even long hair if it’s down. Since taking this to heart no one has asked to swipe my ass for bombs.
“Right. Just hold still. I need to check your genitalia for something.”
LMAO 😭
Ah yes, the penis detector.
For this reason, and for sexual assault survivors, and for our dignity, naked photography and pat downs should not exist.
Hahaha yeah - it’s great that every time I fly, there’s a 1 in 3 chance that I’m outed to some sour faced stranger who will get to grope me.
I will take Amtrak for three times the travel time to avoid TSA.
You can opt out of the RapeScan. It doesn’t get you out of the pat down, but it’s something.
It also wins you direct scorn by the TSAa and an attempt at public shaming “We got an opt out. OPT OUT I NEED A MANAGER! You, stand over there and wait”.
At they very least you’re guaranteed no cellphone screencaps, fresh gloves and less radiation exposure whilst you’re stood at the machine and in the line waiting. Airports are still abysmal on privacy otherwise.
There’s a good Philosophy Tube quote for this. (the presenter is a trans woman).
Apparently the operator of the scanner has to choose if you’re a man or a woman, so “Either my tits are the bomb or there’s an unexpected item in the shagging area”
oh that’s good
Last time I flew I wore jeans that fit super well on the way out and kinda loose jeans that I needed a belt to keep up on the return. The loose jeans set off an anomaly in the groin area and both me and the TSA agent shared a collective “I don’t want to be doing this right now but this is what we have to do”
Anyways my point is, I think it comes down to the fit of your clothing, if it’s more form fitting it’s less likely to be detected as an anomaly. But also the machine is sensitive enough to detect when I’ve forgotten a receipt in my back pocket and will yell about a tiny scrap of thermal paper so I suppose it would detect any anomalies in one’s body
I’ve got a constant runny nose and always have used but still useful (I’m a gremlin, don’t at me) kleenexes in my pockets. They let you keep those on your person, lol.
Yeah they don’t force you to toss it if you have a scrap of trash in your pocket that you forgot about but they do make a stink about you having it because how dare you
“have to do”.
Hmm
I mean, when the choices are either A. Put up with 30 seconds of awkward clothed patdown then move on or B. Likely be detained, not get to return home from my business trip, possibly fired for the stunt and likely have to fund my own cross country return trip through alternate travel means, there isn’t much of a choice is there?
Sorry, I don’t mean to blame you personally. I meant that the TSA / whole routine in an airport is pretty stupid, and people shouldn’t be attacking airplanes to make this security be the norm, and other similarly idealistic thoughts
Yeah, the TSA always gives me special attention just because I have cargo shorts on and they told me that almost always triggers anomalies.
It’s not even policies changing, it seems to be based solely on the scanning hardware they have.
Some airports have different scanners and you can leave them in the bag. Others it needs to be separate, and every electronic device has to be in a separate box.
At some airports it varies by which line you’re in and they yell conflicting instructions within earshot of all of the lines.
I’ve had conflicting instructions in the same line.
Yup, flew international out of JFK in march of this year. The whole line, signs say “remove jackets, remove shoes, remove electronics from your bags”. While moving through the line, start to get everything out to be more efficient. Close to the end, I get diverted to another line with a much bigger scanner and the guy yells at me PUT YOUR ELECTRONICS BACK IN YOUR BACKPACK. LEAVE YOUR SHOES AND BELT ON.
Like duh, I would have not gotten everything ready if there weren’t 20 signs telling me to do so.
Flew again out of JFK internationally 3 days ago, same thing, tons of signs saying to do the same thing. This time, I’m not taking out shit, idk what they’re going to say. Sure enough, get to the actual scanner and this time I do have to take out all my electronics, shoes off, etc in the sheep herding line which would have been way faster if I had done it in line.
This is exactly it. Airports with the newer scanner machines (I call them the croissants due to the resemblance) let you keep your electronics in your bags.
They still give you a hard time for not just automatically knowing that though. Every TSA line should have clearly posted rules for that line.
or maybe they dgaf and need to pull a lot of people through
Yeah I was waiting for someone to call this out.
I think there are specific machines that can scan even with large electronics inside bags. Not all airports have them, just as not all terminals nor security lines have them.
Seriously, there’s no standardization to the security theater hoops that the TSA forces you to jump through. Every airport is different, and the TSA guys always look so exasperated that you don’t know the routine. I guess that’s the point, that on any given day the rules might be different so that potential terrorists will have a harder time finding gaps in security, but it makes it a frustrating experience as a regular non-terrorist passenger.
I travel for work and it’s absolutely not the TSA playing the long game to keep us on our toes, it’s absolute lack of standards gear and incompetence.
Since its all make believe anyway and they have never stopped a single terrorist they may as well make it convenient for everyone else by making it standard.
“Haha look at this asshole taking off his shoes, doesn’t he know we don’t have to do that anymore?”
the man says while taking off his belt to prepare for the newly introduced rectal scan
Had some dude in DFW act like I was both deaf and retarded when I asked him if my laptop had to be in a separate bin, lol…… it changes every time I swear
I got through Des Moines with a laptop in my carry-on no problem, but I got blue glove frisked in front of everyone because my bra had too many straps on the back.
It’s so strange, as a middle-aged dude I never get frisked…🤔🤔🤔
As a young dude, I used to get frisked often. Now, I wonder if I could put on a wig and change my frequency. I miss the human contact.
Congrats, this is the saddest thing I’ve read all month and it’s fucking Christmastime.
Oh, that reminds me. If I book a flight on christmas, maybe I’ll get the TSA present.
I actually got an sarcastic “Is this your first time flying?” The last trip I went on because I didn’t take some protein bars out of my pockets.
Just reply ‘yes’.
Typical rookie mistake. What if you hyper-proteinate while inflight and then became too strong to control, like a protein hulk?
Why did it matter? Did it trigger as metal or something?
Protein bars need to go through the allocated scanner.
You can’t bring outside food or drink through, unless it’s for a baby
I wonder how often TSA agents actually fly on an airplane. This kind of work bias annoys me, like pushy car salesman trying to make spending 40k in an hour seem like no big deal. Like I understand that people do this everyday, but I don’t, so chill out a bit.
One of my flying tricks is to twist tie all of my cords into one big loop so that you know you have all of your cords at once and it makes them easy to pull out and put back in as needed
I started asking each time, have saved a lot of hassle that way
One time I asked while putting stuff in the buckets, then when it got to the scanner they told me the opposite.
I work with energetic materials in a professional capacity. I have yet to loose ny items, but I am pretty diligent in keeping plane stuff separate from work stuff.
Energetic materials, you mean like red bull?
Lol. In case it’s a legitimate question, Commonly it means material that has a lot of stored energy, reacts exothermic and is self sustaining. Explosives is a typical example.
Ahh it sounded like a fancy name for radioactive material to me. TIL!
traveling with a baby for the first time , having laptop and having anxiety problems , travelling with multiple transfers was an awful combo.
