“We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.”
That’s gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I’ve heard in a while.
We hope that shooting ourselves in the foot today will allow us to run faster in the years to come…
Expecting either US political party to drop its support for Israel is a fool’s game.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel? I understand this is a no win situation but given the choice who’s going to be better for Muslims domestically or abroad? Clearly the dem. And on that point I wonder if they think trump would have behaved any differently toward Israel? Spoiler alert.
They have a point though, neither d nor r is going to be “good” for Muslims or Palestinians, our track record sorta proves that out.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel?
Maybe they figure that when Trump was supporting his Muslim ban, they had one major party on their side.
Instead of zero parties on their side and one party gloating that they have no choice.
Never mind a party which is more than happy to call them morons for feeling let down and wanting a candidate who actually stands up for them.
Wanting someone to stand up for you isn’t moronic.
What’s moronic is voting in such a way that elects the party FURTHEST from your ideal.
If the party needs their votes, it should act like it needs their votes.
They certainly know how to act like they need Republican votes.
Interesting. Now we have to stop people from punching themselves in the face? I tell you, you can’t fix stupid.
I tell you, you can’t fix stupid.
Then give up and lose. You’ll get to blame a minority for your problems, just like republicans.
I tried asking that question on a post somewhere around here and they pretty much responded like I was the biggest moron who had to be spoken down to.
I see this kind of thinking often, with regards to young voters, black voters, blue collar workers, immigrants, women, etc.
‘We’ve checked with the experts and determined that they should be grateful! Why won’t they adjust their lived experience to match our policy platform!!’
It doesn’t matter whether you agree with them. They’re leveraging power. You are free to disregard them if you think your personal narratives are enough to keep you comfort after Trump wins.
If Biden and his supporters want to win, they need to stop arguing with their voters and start listening. It’s not that complicated.
I’ll be comfortable if Trump wins. I’m a cis white male who makes over $200k per year. Hell, I’ll probably get a fucking tax cut.
These idiots are going to be among the first and worst to get hurt.
I’ll vote to try to stop them from hurting themselves but there’s only so much I can do.
Democrats feel entitled to votes from their base are are offended at the idea they might have to earn their vote. They blackmail us with Republicans and victim blame when their bad electoral strategy fails them
This implies their voters are speaking in a unified voice. They’re not. Subsets are, closer to it, but overall, politics is about compromise and consensus.
If you want the power of dominion, go for a monarchy, and if you don’t want to compromise at all, go to war. When it comes time for peace again, it’ll be some manner of compromise.
This implies their voters are speaking in a unified voice. They’re not. Subsets are, closer to it, but overall, politics is about compromise and consensus.
“We decided you’re expendable. We still expect your solidarity.”
Because in bizarro world a ban is worse than ethnic cleansing.
Ban + more ethnic cleansing > no ban + less ethnic cleansing
It’s utterly disingenuous to suggest the two are mutually exclusive. The ethnic cleaning only intensifies under Trump, and the ban is in addition to that. Unless we’re in a bizarre world where Trump suddenly loves brown people and Palestinians.
Speculating while ignoring genocide. BlueMAGA is toxic as fuck
Gee I wonder why you guys have practically no meaningful political presence in reality. Maybe if you tell me more about how much I love genocide, I’ll see the purity in your idealistic views and decide to support your cause instead.
Of course, I could fire back that you want dead Palestinian babies since you refuse to go against the most deadly option – but that would be as utterly disingenuous as writing off all Biden supporters as genocide supporters.
Biden allowing their death is the most deadly option. Do you people even hear yourself? I couldn’t give a fuck if you support us or not, which is preferred since liberals tend to co-opt movements and try to redirect the energy to neoliberalism.
Personally I think a Republican actively killing them would be the most deadly option. I’m curious though why you think Biden would result in more Palestinian deaths than any Republican candidate.
The funniest thing about this comment is that it could be easily directed at you as well.
Then again not like the “very shoot ourselves in the foot, but just little bit, instead of lot” on decades long repeat leads to anything good.
If ones vote is to be taken for granted, you have no power. Only way you can hold your own side accountable is by threatening to withhold the vote.
That is bargaining. Voting Democrat nomatter what and after that asking could they please do something, that is begging. Begging rarely works as well as bargaining.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Joys of two party system.
Most likely people just get apathy and instead of flipping to Trump, they simply stay home. Which is the other bargain. What you offer for me to bother to go from my home to the voting station in the first place.
That is their play “you can’t take us for granted anymore, we care about our vote and bargaining power on long term enough to suffer on short term to buy long term relevance”.
Whether it works is different matter. I don’t know, if democratic leadership has the where with all to take their left flank of voters as anything but given serval supporters to be kept in line with “but we are only little bit bad, those guys are really really bad”.
I can’t wait till we find out in a few months how Russian & Iranian money was actually fueling this.
1000% guaranteed. They’ve done it before and their doing it again.
Iranian
I find it a tad unbelievable that Iran would fund the president who assassinated one of their top generals with a missile strike.
Why? Iran benefits from American hostility. External foes help silence domestic dissent.
I watched a video recently that indicated under Biden, the state department has worked to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and the Israel. They went on to say that Iran supports or even outright funds Hamas, Hezbolla, and a number of other paramilitary groups in the area so they can maintain anti-west sentiment, to prevent an erosion of their regional influence.
Which is to say - a U.S. that’s embroiled in a culture war with a president that has disassembled the state department is ideal for Iran.
Didn’t Trump have a travel ban on Muslims at one point?
Edit: yep, he did
that was like the first thing he did
His reckless nepotism foreign policy is also the reasons that Hamas attacked and Palestians are dying right now.
Palestinians are dying because Genocide Joe is giving bombs to the IDF please stop twisting reality to fit your world views.
So what, you support the billions in arms sales to Saudi Arabia to try to normalize relations without any movement on Palestinian rights? The announcement of the Abraham accords was when Hamas started planning this attack.
Of course not. Saudi is an American dog state bowing to money. MBS has no morals.
The one Saudi king (Faisal) that tried to help Palestine got assassinated by his cousin that was an American drone.
They responded to this unoriginal take in TV interviews a while ago.
What did they say?
The guy running against Biden has far worse policies with regard to Muslims. If that guy wins it “proves” America wants the worse policies, potentially causing Democrats to switch to those policies to try to win.
Luckily, this is a publicity stunt that I don’t foresee changing any actual votes.
If Biden’s stance on Israel is driving away voters, that’s just normal. This is one of those important polarizing issues, and he can’t avoid accountability, for good or bad. The death count and coverage has guaranteed that.
As for “America wants” language, that doesn’t mean anything. Different people have different goals.
for “America wants” language, that doesn’t mean anything. Different people have different goals.
Sure, it’s shorthand, but the idea is that the Democratic Party might nominate a presidential candidate who has harsher views about Muslims and Palestine, if they see those views being the reason they lost, or among the reasons they lost.
They would see that they had the “better” policies and still didn’t get the votes from the people who care most passionately about them, so their approach did not work. Maybe they go closer to the protesters view to try to get their votes, or maybe they give up on the protesters as a voting bloc since they couldn’t even get their vote when they had the “better” policies. That would entail going further away from the protesters views.
Either could happen, I don’t know the polling, but my point is that it isn’t just “we will take 4 years of Trump to make our point and make Democrats listen,” they may be taking 4 years of Trump and then proving that no one should align their policy views with theirs going forward because it hurts more than it helps.
Who are Zionists actually voting for? If it’s not the Democratic party, then why would he continue to be pro-Israel? Whom is he pandering to with that stance?
There are many reasons politicians might be pro war. The military industrial complex is too powerful, among other things.
Rationally, you have a valid point.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Lesser of two evils only works when the distinction is clear to everyone.
Biden needs to separate himself from Israeli genocidal politics, and it seems his cabinet is trying to shift.
So in conclusion, you might consider this a publicity stunt. And maybe it is. But recent elections have shown that you can’t ignore your base, you need to fire them up to really turn them out.
So this is definitely a good move.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Trump provided military assistance, approved arms sales, and personally vetoed a bill to end US military assistance to the Saudis in Yemen which is considered a genocide as well.
And his Israel “peace plan” was literally just giving the Israelis everything they wanted so if you’re giving him credit for Israel/Palestine actions you’re literally just giving him credit for not being the president when this happened. He absolutely would have been worse for Palestinians, he just didn’t have the power at the time.
Good thing there’s someone else running in the primary that’s polling 10 times higher than that guy.
Who would that be?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/2024/national/
I guess she’s got double the votes, not 10 times, but it’s funny you haven’t heard of Marianne Williamson.
Ah, yes, “recalibrate” to a dictatorship. Republicans LOVE muslims!
Trump will “recalibrate” their citizenship and country of residency. These dudes need to wake up
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They must want to completely lose Democracy because they aren’t getting their way. That’s what’s in the ballot. There very likely won’t BE 2028 election if Rump gets back in.
If democracy isn’t working for them, why would they vote for it? Remember, they just voted with Republicans to censure Rashida Tlaib over nothing too, and then there’s all the other stuff like student loans, the child tax credit, gaslighting people about how well the economy is going, etc.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism, not actually improving things, because there always a Lieberman or a Manchin ready to sink anything that would be too lefty.
If democracy isn’t working for them, why would they vote for it?
Because it can get worse. This seems obvious.
Of course it can and will. But just like Weimar Germany, the centrist parties (or in this case, the only non-fascist party) are too busy with their heads up their asses (or scare mongering about socialism) instead of solving people’s issues. Why would they support the party that will punish the few representatives they have any time they stand up for Muslim issues?
BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE IS WORSE.
This also seems PAINFULLY obvious.
The alternative in this case being “treating people like you need their votes.”
The party would rather have Trump than the nightmare scenario of acting like their voters are worth anything.
Look, I can’t keep people from hurting themselves. I will call them morons leading up to and afterwards though.
Same as I did for dipshits in red states losing maternity wards now. /shrug
You’d rather blame people for a loss than try to win.
Both options keep getting worse and continuing to paly a rigged game isn’t worth it. The Republicans might just cheat and win and all.the.Biden capitulation will have been for nothing
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism
Is it an inevitable turn towards fascism, or is it people refusing to vote against fascism because Democrats don’t “inspire” them?
You can either keep shaming non-voters, or democrats could maybe do something for them once in a while that’s not a corporate giveaway disguised as policy.
then there’s all the other stuff like student loans, the child tax credit
I see someone isn’t following what is happening or how this works. The President, leader of the Dems, changed federal policy to forgive student loans (or at least a big chunk of them for a big chunk of the population) and it got struck down by the Supreme Court thanks to the other party. The Dems passed the child tax credit and then couldn’t get it through the house to renew it because of the other party.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism, not actually improving things
Let’s say that’s true, it’s objectively not but let’s pretend it is. Isn’t that still the obviously better option? How the fuck is fascism today better than fascism tomorrow?
Then we don’t fucking deserve it or it will be time to refresh the tree of liberty. When disenfranchised people tell you that they don’t see a difference, ask why. These folk have lost family members and are telling you that, from their perspective the only difference between having a R and a D in the White House is whether you show up to protest too.
“Refresh the Tree of Liberty”… that’s some bullshit, Trump gets into office and he’ll chop that tree down himself. Then deport all the Muslims he can. Voting R is the literal version of “chop your nose off to spite your face”.
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If they can’t see a difference between having legal abortions and not, they’re fucking idiots.
Yes, Roe still exists and we need to preserve it by… making excuses for not codifying it.
Hey maybe republicans will do it.
“Everyone to my left is all the way to my right”
Na mine is “those idiots think getting the party furthest from their supposed ideal elected will be good for them”.
Then don’t accuse me of being a Republican for pointing out that Democrats did fuck all to preserve Roe.
If you can’t see the difference between not being able to get an abortion and your mother being dead, then I pity you and your lack of empathy.
If the overturn of Roe has turned you into a one issue voter, then I will pair you off with a 2nd amendment one issue voter and you can angrily jerk each other off.
Na I just picked an issue that any fucking moron would be able to tell the parties apart on.
Hey maybe Trump will be better on Muslim relations though.
Ah yes, Muslims are famously all pro-choice.
TIL discerning between two things is tantamount to support for one of them.
These fucking idiots.
Morons.
Yeah sorry these people are idiots and should be ignored. We are in a really dangerous position right now where we could still fall to fascism and need every blue vote we can.
Do they honestly think that a Republican or Trump (who banned people from Muslim countries) aren’t gonna ban them too?
They care about other people being genocided. They are not selfish pieces of shit.
How is trump gonna be better on genocide?
It’s hardly possible to do worse than Genocide Joe who is fully funded and bought by the israeli lobby AIPAC.
At worst Trump would have done the same as Biden.
Oh yeah, he was not really that bad, guy really likes the Palestinians. Are people memories really that bad? I get it, biden is not good. Do you think trump would be better?
Trump would be better or the same for the Palestinians . Biden is a 100% israel drone fully owned by AIPAC. It’s quite impossible to do worse than Biden because Genocide Joe is all-in on Genocide. They’re talking about cutting off Ukraine to continue funding the israeli genocide.
Reminder that israel had already killed more civilians than Putin did since the start of the Ukraine war. Biden is literally worse than Putin.
I love how depending on who you talk to either us controls Israel or Israel controls us. People can’t make up their mind.
Trump is the guy who moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and put bans on immigration from Muslim countries. He’s also the guy who’s talking about deporting Arabs even if they’re natural born.
Get your head out of your ass
Israel controls the US through AIPAC.
If you vote for someone who isn’t owned by AIPAC then Israel wouldn’t control the US anymore.
It’s so simple isnt it? Now go out and vote for Genocide Joe again!
It’s hardly possible to do worse
There are about a million ways to do worse.
For example, a U.S. president could send American ground troops into Gaza. Or recognize Gaza and the West Bank as Israeli territory. Or increase military aid to Israel tenfold. Or launch a preemptive military attack against Hezbollah. Or launch a ground attack against the Huthi rebels for firing rockets at Israel. Or increasing tensions with Iran for funding Hamas. Or round up suspected Hamas supporters in the U.S. and deport them. Or round up suspected Palestine supporters in the U.S. and hold them in indefinite detention. Or create a House Committee for Un-American Activities. Or bring back “enhanced interrogation” for questioning Americans suspected of un-American activities.
The possibilities are really unlimited.
This is like arguing that voting for Hitler as Reichskanzler wouldn’t be so bad, because at worst he would be doing the exact same thing as Kurt von Schleicher.
But that’s the thing: things can always get worse. And Trump has proven time and time again that he’s willing to make things worse.
America doesn’t have the money for any of that shit. They’re broke. If they had money they would have done all the things you said. America just can’t afford nor win an all out war because as soon as they get into one China takes Taiwan.
Trump doesn’t have foreign policy. He is the guy that retreated from Afghanistan btw not Genocide Joe or Obomber. As long as he can slush a few million to Mar A Lago he doesn’t give a shit what happens elsewhere.
“That Muslim Ban was such a good idea and concentration camps at the border, we want to see what the orange one will do next!”
If they succeed in electing Trump, Democrats won’t need to reflect about anything because they won’t be allowed to run for office anymore.
But the Anti-Biden folks will be able to tell the next generation that they “stood up for their own ideals!” Sure, they won’t have prevented any genocide, and they will have put the party into power that is currently trying to set up a fascist theocracy, but they can go to sleep knowing they have personal integrity!
/s
The other side of this being someone saying “we’re not going to legislate anything that will help you, and fuck you for asking, but vote for us because we won’t actively genocide you” which is not really a great selling point but yeah at least we’re avoiding the worse stuff.
It’s a bit ironic that it’s always “Vote for Democrats or democracy dies” when that setup is inherently undemocratic, since your vote can’t go anywhere but the single choice that lets you still have a vote
It’s a sucky system, for sure, but we have zero chance to fix it by sprinting towards Fascism.
And perhaps it’s ultimately a lost cause, but given the demographic shift of Millennials and Gen Z, I think it’s far from a foregone conclusion.
Please go look up the political compass. Both parties are fascist.
Yeah, sorry. You’re going to have to give me a source for that claim.
It’s this dumbass forum of 14 year olds called /politicalcompass where a bunch of high schoolers with no life experience try to discuss complex issues through the lens of a four-sided charicature of political ideologies that they call the political compass. It’s total horseshit and the meme has been coopted by actual fascists.
I actually found one source (might have been the same place), and it “analyzes” Biden and Trump from 2020 based on their past policy stances and public statements; it shows Biden and Trump practically overlapping. This is based on some 62 questions they ask community members.
If someone honestly thinks that’s a reasonable analysis of past and especially current stances, I weep for the state of skepticism and rational thought.
As a sidenote, if we look at the polling data the way it should be seen, it’s interesting that those people are so far left that they feel like Biden and Trump are overlapping.
This is exactly what I thought when I read that. What kind of “recalibrating” do they think they’re going to get to do with a christian fascist lording over the country?
I can’t help but have conspiracy theory thoughts, like this is some kind of conservative campaign. It’s hard to rule anything out anymore, and the idea of muslims voting for trump is just that fucking stupid.
Or you could actually hear them out rather than discredit them. Biden is killing their families in mass right now. You want them to think about how Trump might hurt them later? Which is actually happening now? Does making Biden think he will win encourage him to stop participating in the war crimes that he’s being referred to the ICC for?
This is how democracies die.
Wtf are you even talking about? This is the dumbest take of the day by far.
If you’re one election cycle away from collapse, you’re already dead.
Russian money hard at work.
Muslim ideology doesn’t exactly fit with democracy so it makes sense for them to embrace radical extremism. Same goes for most religions.
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These people are stupid. Short-sighted generation that can’t see past next month. They’re not going to be changing anything, just making sure worse for no reason and giving conservatives more time to get the anti-minority establishment further embedded in everyday culture.
Honest question: what would Trump be doing right now? Nuking Gaza? Nuking Iran? “If you’re not with us, you’re against us”? And I’m sure Fox News would be backing him up how the US needs to invade Iran.
Rounding up “terrorist sympathizers” domestically while encouraging Israel to go full genocide and rattling all the sabers at Iran. It would be a complete shitshow and probably spiral out of control quickly.
Probably nothing. I think his foreign policy resembles something if an isolationist one. But Israel is a wildcard when it comes to US politics so who knows.
Were you out sick the time Trump assassinated a top Iranian general in Iraq and almost caused WW3 over it?
