We’ve already been through this. It’s so very tiring. I’m over it. If you’re a trump supporter, then fuck you. That’s all. Goodbye.
I get how you feel, and I desperately want to feel the same way. But we aren’t going to win people over back to the rational side with this attitude. It just feeds into the tribalism and makes the problem worse.
We need to empathize with the other side, which means start by listening to their concerns, and then the moment they feel listened too, we have to completely repudiate the awful stances they believe in, shut down their flawed logic and force them to face facts and reality: one human being to another.
This is brain washing remedy 101. Did we all forget the painfull lessons we learned through the first Trump Presidency? I feel like we have all collectively forgotten that period in time.
They don’t think rationally, is the problem.
Do you understand how many times we’ve tried this already? They are perfectly fine with hypocrisy, lies, and projection.
I’m not saying we need to destroy them or anything, but this shit has gone too far. We need to try way harder to fight back against their hateful, regressive bullshit at this point.
No, the people that voted for Trump in this election will never vote for a non republican candidate regardless of how much you try to appease them. IMO you’re more likely to lose even more voters than you stand to gain taking this approach. The democrats need to come up with a vision and candidate that is neither Harris, Biden, and certainly not anything close to Trump. They need someone that will make non-voters believe that there’s a good chance their life will improve enough to make voting worthwhile.
What about the lack of turnout for KH? Am I reading the results wrong ? Was there not massive amounts on non voters? As much as I hate republicans the fence setters an uninformed have fucked us all outside the US
John Oliver’s segment on Palestinians really cemented it for me: if your family was killed by a missile sold to them by Biden, it’s really difficult to support his successor.
Sure you may not want the orange turd either.
But imagine the heartache of voting for the person related to the one who is responsible for the death of your family.
I know I can’t. And a part of me feels for them.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary’s election plan verbatim. No one stopped to tell Harris that Clinton lost.
Sanders warned her that if she wants a good turn out, she needs to have a plan for the working class.
Instead she wasted weeks trying to get Republican endorsements instead of trying to shore up her base.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary’s election plan verbatim.
She absolutely did not. Hillary leaned into the gender card hardcore. She had her supporters wearing t-shirts saying “I’m with her” with an arrow sign. She said “I’m not saying you should vote for me because I’m a woman, you should vote for me because of my qualifications. But one of my qualifications is…I’M A WOMAN!!!”
Kamala didn’t lean into any of this demographics, gender war trash. She (wisely) followed Barack Obama’s playbook of leaving the identify politics crap at the door. She lost for other reasons. Hillary alienated voters by leaning too hard into identity politics. Kamala ran a much better campaign than Hillary. They are not the same. Why Kamala lost will be debated for some time at least, but it will not be concluded reasonably that she lost for the same reasons Hillary lost in 2016. I know people want to conclude that women just can’t get elected, but we haven’t yet had a female candidate that ran a great campaign. As someone who wants our first female president, I have to reluctantly admit that we’ve been underserved by our female politicians thus far. I have high hopes for AOC in the future, but we’ll have to wait and see how that plays out. I don’t actually think Kamala did anything wrong in her campaign; I just think she was working against the legacy set by her predecessor, and it was too much. That, and too many American voters are stupid, ignorant, misguided voters. And, probably, some Pro-Palestinian voters had their heads up their asses.
2020 election saw massive turnout in favour of DNC. Then Biden did as much as he could to clean up Trump’s mess and make things better.
Kamala trusted that turnout, hoped people will know the work that was done, understand the threat of second Trump presidency, and vote in similar manner again.
In other words she trusted the people to be informed voters. And they backstabbed her.
Kamala trusted that turnout, hoped people will know the work that was done, understand the threat of second Trump presidency, and vote in similar manner again.
Don’t forget running to the right in an attempt to court R voters (just what every D constituent wants!) who (as usual) did NOT show up for her.
Every fucking election ‘moderate’ Republicans play the part of Lucy and Dems play the part of Charlie Brown
And here I am thinking Lucy is establishment dems and Charlie Brows is progressives.
That would also fit.
Another would be Charlie as people who want police reform and Lucy being the Dems.
And she lost a race against the clock by starting her campaign in the eleventh hour. Those Google search trends showed that somehow a nonzero amount of voters didn’t even know she was the candidate and Biden had dropped out.
So many different variables in the mix make this election hard to compare to prior elections like 2016.
I chose to vote for Harris despite this because Trump would be no better on this, so effectively the issue wasn’t up for vote and I could only vote on the other issues that were different between them. But very bluntly, I don’t blame Arabs and Muslims for not voting for Harris. They have one of the strongest grievances one could possibly have (i.e. second only to attacks directly on them personally, in the U.S.), and the dismissiveness from Biden (and Harris) was downright insulting.
A part of me does feel like Biden chose Israel over Americans. I don’t know if changing course on this would have changed the election, and I guess it’s impossible to truly know.
The problem for the Democrats is that the tent is very big. There are a lot of issues and a lot of people who care about very different things.
Gaza, unfortunately, was one of those. We had people who grit their teeth and voted Harris even though it was going to hurt them.
On the other side, Jewish zionists would have absolutely turned on Harris if she fully supported Palestine. Harris made a pragmatic choice to not alienate the zionists in the hopes that her opponent would be so toxic that Palestinians would see the lesser of two evils.
The really frustrating thing is Republicans don’t have to run this kind of campaign. They can run a campaign on shit, fantasy, and rumor and their base will still show up and vote.
Additionally, if you did not vote for Harris I will judge you.
This is the third fucking time Democrats have run with an establishment candidate.
I voted Harris but I knew she was a shit candidate and not who we needed to go against Trump. She couldn’t even primary ffs.
The DNC is squarely to blame, every time people blame the voters and nothing fucking changes. You can’t keep putting up generic neocon establishment hand-picked candidates and expect turnout.
every time people blame the voters and nothing fucking change
I blame all the voters that were fine with voting for Trump first, because they looked at that shit stain and thought he would be acceptable as the leader of the country. The people that voted for him are the problem.
Harris still did a terrible job, sure. But a literal pile of dogshit should have been a preferable option to Trump.
No I think it’s time to look inwards now. The only people to blame is ourselves and the trust we put into the DNC. They have broken our trust over and over again. It’s fucking time to rip the bandaid off and just focus on organizing and rooting out the people and issues that led to this failure in leadership. I don’t think I’m being dramatic in saying: they have completely failed us and robbed us of a secure future. I’m young, and this supreme court and all the shit to come is going to haunt me until the day I die. I’m fucking livid.
Maga has done the hard work and organized. We aren’t entitled to rule with no leadership.
Genocide is a redline for me, though I understand why to many Harris voters the mass slaughter of people halfway across the world is a non-issue.
Edit: “If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump’s extremism and vote for him.” – Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
Of course it’s a fucking issue! Do you think it will be better now that Netanyahu got the person be wanted in the white house?! My god how short sighted are you!
Your stance strikes me as performative. As everyone’s lives are getting harder, including the people you claim to be prioritizing, that’s okay because at least your hands are clean. That’s the most important thing to you, that everyone knows you personally are pure.
The majority of the blame lays with the DNC, the GOP, and those that voted for Trump. But you will also share a portion of the blame, even if you deny and refuse to take responsibility for it, we all lay it on your shoulders anyways.
Well thank God you stopped that regular genocide from happening from a first term president who we can leverage public support against if she wanted a second term… And instead transformed it into a much faster and crueler genocide by a second term fascist who openly said we will never vote again and who wants to deport 25million Latinos out of this country (also a genocide fyi).
You guys really helped out those people in Gaza, sure thing. Look at how much you achieved. Next you’ll vote for mass gas chambers instead of individual lethal injection because you’re against the death penalty.
Trump voters won’t care about any of that shit until it impacts them personally. My family is moving from Indiana to Maryland because of this election which is really going to obliterate grandparents’ time around our kids. Sucks for them we refuse to stay in a state that would actively destroy our kids’ education and wellbeing. They can shell out whatever massively inflated airfare it’ll cost them to come visit us in a place we can actually feel safe.
I just feel like after a public rapist becomes president, twice, there’s no hope for Americans. It really is hopeless by now.
child rapist, Kate was 12
The DOJ had four years to prosecute him under Biden and they dragged their heels.
The Southern District of New York had ample reason and opportunity to prosecute him as a mobbed to businessman in the '00s and '10s, but he was friends with the mayor so they didn’t.
The Clintons certainly knew about Epstein in the 90s and could have busted that whole thing up 30 years ago. But the donations were too sweet, so they didn’t.
Trump is a creature of consequences.
But also much like most consequences at scale, those that pay the most of the price are not those who brought the consequences on
agree, no argument, just clarifying.
Think about it this way, if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
It is accepted and now normalized. If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
The problem for me is I grew up in a country that I thought was beyond that. I was apparently wrong.
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Just in case to clarify, I’m not defending child rapists who most surely did commit the crime in question, just saying it’s a dangerous concept.
it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Don Siegelman was the last Dem governor of Alabama. Pursued on spurious charges in 2004, which were immediately thrown out by the judge of the case, then again in 2006 by a Bush appointed Judge who was more friendly with Republican prosecutors.
I expect a lot more of this in 2025 once Trump takes office and starts settling scores.
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
As an example, Trump didn’t get elected because he was convicted of 34 felonies.
Oh wait, maybe the possibility of false crime accusations don’t fucking matter when real ones aren’t a hurdle to getting elected.
Lol right? Let’s stop pretending sexual assault or even pedophilia allegations do ANY HARM when the FUCKING PRESIDENT IS ONE. Let’s stop silencing victims’ stories of abuse out of concern for their abuser since it doesn’t matter anyway, it doesn’t hurt the perpetrator clearly, and just helps the victim to let them share. It also helps other victims be informed. I’m so fucking done with that line of speech now.
if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
I’ve heard arguments to the effect that politicians who are too clean simply don’t succeed, because people don’t want to give you big campaign checks unless they have Compromat on you.
So you get invited to the Eyes Wide Shut party, your rich friends catalog your debauchery, and this is what keeps you loyal.
It’s time for Josh Duggar to run for office
Bring out R Kelly
The two of them together make the dream team
There would absolutely be men who would qualify, as well as a lot of women. Why do you think everyone is sexually assaulting everyone else? Let’s not allow violent criminals (which rape is both violent and a crime, it is torture via sexual acts) to be in office. At a minimum.
If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
This is why I hate capitalism so much. Extreme power disparity is the heart of tyranny and the extreme disparities in wealth that capitalism creates only leads to extreme disparities in political power.
I fear that the US went past a breaking point and that the US will fully be an oligarchy after Trump is done
I refuse to think about it that way lol. Quantity does not equal acceptance for me. We have to hold our countries’ representatives to a higher standard than being outright criminals, guilty of many, serious offenses. If there are only a handful of politicians left after such a sift, then so be it.
Thank God I’m not in the USA. But it’s not like this doesn’t fuck over the rest of the world too.
there would not be many left to govern
Good. There is not that many positions to fill anyway.
It’s not normal that a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politician.
a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a
politicianfucking president of a huge country
You should already be hopeless considering the current administration is aiding genocide.
Thanksgiving will be the real test if people really mean it.
How so? My dad voted for Trump’s fascism, but my mom did not. I am not going to avoid my mom just to punish my dad.
Host Thanksgiving and only invite your mom.
Yes
I judge them for being the most gullible dumbasses in the history of the world. How stupid you have to be to believe the shit that Trump says?
These are just the dumbest and most simple-minded people in the country.
Yup. Communication requires effort on the part of the sender and receiver. I reject the premise that anyone needed convincing by the Dems. If simply seeing the candidates speak wasn’t enough, that portion if the electorate is not putting in the slightest effort to understand. There are many motivations for wilful ignorance. There were perhaps other explanations for Trumps win in '16. This time it’s just that America would rather have a convicted felon as a president.
I never judge people who got scammed or tricked or whatever. It happens. But getting scammed by one of the dumbest people on the planet is almost an achievement. I’m not even hyperbolic here, i have not seen a person making so much mouth noises and saying so little at the same time. That guy tricked you? Not even a smart and charming guy? Pathetic.
People always wonder why Vince McMahon get away with all his shit. And i did too, because i kept up with his monstrosities for quite some time. But even watching his netflix documentary, and knowing what an absolute monster he is, i just could not help but finding him weirdly charming. I don’t know what level of charisma he’s blessed with but it’s almost creepy. Donald has absolutely non of that.
Surely hating everyone in America isn’t the answer
It’s a good fucking start.
I just judge them for being fucking idiots.
This condescending attitude is almost ok when it’s done by voters, the problem is tgat the dem party constantly acts insufferably towards potential voters.
It is a party’s duty to appeal to the people, not the other way around. The dems proved once again that acting like “the least worst option” doesn’t work, especially in a disinformation economy like the US and frankly the rest of the world. It’s not the 2000’s anymore, respectability politics are hated by most voters.
I said this repeatedly. I told them I was voting for Kamala and I wanted her to win, which is why I was requesting they change their speech.
Anyone that brought up your points earlier this year was dog-piled and being called a tankie or Russian shill. God forbid a powerless user on this website brought up an ounce of criticism towards the party or else it was as if every loyalist was experiencing their own personal 9/11
Got called a shill because I said that Bill Clinton (who someone else brought up in the thread) sexually assaulted Monica Lewinsky because their relationships was a clear abuse of power; it wasn’t consensual cheating due to the power differences in age, jobs, he was her employer, the president of the country, etc. And boy did the guys come out in full defense of Clinton, the man who rode on Epstein’s plane, while screaming at me that I need therapy for bringing this up and being upset about it, and this will cost Kamala the election. Nevermind current victims or court proceedings or the public’s right to know what their president was raping during his presidency.
Further, she was a prosecutor. Had she run on Epstein/Diddy “I will be tough on these sex traffickers, including Trump and Clinton,” she would have won. Unfortunately, she ran on “not Trump.” That’s like telling a person to not think of a bear.
Sheesh… all these liberal tears are going to sustain me for years.
Lol we don’t have years. AMOC collapse is here and you all are defunding NOAA. What type of climate change related disaster do you think you’ll die from? A flood like in Spain, Bogota, Japan, North Carolina? A hurricane like in Cuba and Florida? A volcano or earthquake (and yes those are getting worse due to climate change)? Maybe a polar vortex freeze, a tornado, or a forest fire? Perhaps just simple extreme heat? Who knows? I can’t wait to find out tbh :)
I propose a total halt to any sexual activity with any Trump supporter. This will go on for the 4 years that asshole is in power and until a reasonable president that is not a rapist racist asshole is elected. Sure that guy could be republican but I highly recommend elsewhere.
There should be no statute of limitations.
This comment is not going to age well. Not because of your choice of partner. But you will see that next year, the two term rule will be removed
4B needs to become more popular in the US with ovulating people.
It won’t guarantee safety from forced situations, but with the incoming total bans on abortion and contraceptives they’re facing over there, flat out refusing to have sex, relationships, and marriages with men, is going to be the best way to stay safe and in control of their bodies and finances.
I don’t get how anyone could ever be attracted to a trump supporter anyway. It’s a massive massive turn off for me
Just something that’s worth pointing out is that trumps voter base didn’t change much. Counting is still happening, but so far it’s trump -1 mil and Harris -13 million from last election.
So it’s not so much that republicans voted badly it’s that democrats lost a good chunk of votes (16%) didn’t bother to vote this time.
And while I completely disagree with trumps side, it’s insane, but at least I am happy that people voted. Voter apathy is far more dangerous to me. It’s like saying to politicians, “I don’t care that the nazi party is coming to power”.
To me that’s the biggest issue this election and honestly I don’t understand why so few people cared. It’s actually same story over here (UK), where we had fewer people voting this election than previous one.
Voters in every western country have no idea what policies are being voted on. They vote with their feelings.
There are a lot of enthusiastic people who want to be on team man, team money, team military. The first thing those people learned after their names was that they were BOYS and they would be sorted into the BOYS section, play on BOYS team. Voting Conservative is a natural extension of what they’ve been doing their whole lives.
It’s harder motivating people to get out for team women, team tolerance, team responsibility. It requires a leader with charisma who we fall in love with.
I’m being absolutely serious when I say the Democratic Party should have nominated George Clooney — a famous celebrity figurehead would guarantee they win every presidential election.
It sounds like the Democrats just failed to present themselves as a viable alternative, or really inspire or motivate anyone to vote. Their platform seemed to be largely not being Trump.
The DNC and Biden failed us. His legacy will be tainted due to his failure to step aside for the nation. Kamala as a VP was already unpopular the DNC should’ve known they needed to choose someone who at least did well in the primaries or could actually fucking win.
I voted for her but I knew she probably wouldn’t win, they don’t fucking learn and then they blame us.
Even if you didn’t vote for her, but voted either trump, 3rd party or spoilt vote, I respect that you voted. It’s important to vote
When asked about healthcare, they said they had “concepts” of a plan.
Oh wait, no, that was the other guy.
Thats the 2020 platform. If you want to be a talking head you’ll need some argument more cogent than that^
Every interview where questions were asked about Kamala’s positions, shed talk about trump. It was not all that different than trump shit talking kamala even.
Maybe, but it could also be that a large group of people chose not to vote because they thought it would mean something. I swore an oath and was prepared to lay down my life to protect the right of the American people to do just that. Seeing that “my fellow Americans” chose to back fascism, I honestly wish I could take it all back. When my son wanted nothing more than to run and play with his father through his childhood I was hobbling behind him with a cane, at the time I was okay with it because I thought I was protecting HIS rights (which is not the right reason I guess, I’m selfish).
At this point I just have to come to terms with the fact that over half the country is cool with it (every single non-vote was a vote for “I’m fine with whatever y’all want to do”).
I’m not American, but I would have voted for him the first time around.
I was bored. Bored with life. Let’s fuck shit up by putting some crazy in office. Even better that I don’t live there so I get to grab the popcorn and watch the crazy.
But by the end of it, I was sooo done. I just wanted it to calm down and go back to normal.
There is no way I would have voted for him this time. And frankly I am disappointed in anyone who did.
Because you were doing it for fun, they were doing it because their lives are getting worse and wanted any change. Shows how shit the US experience is that this was preferable to continuing on.
Their lives were getting worse because of Republican policies that couldn’t be fixed because of Republican obstruction to reform.
They are morons for voting for the cause of their problems just because the source of the problem wasn’t creating new ones.
Then you should be fair and judge harris in a similar way. For supporting and being a part of genocide.
There’ll be a genocide under Trump too
“If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump ’s extremism and vote for him.” – Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
