• jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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      3 months ago

      You were fine until the end, Biden is not an active participant in Genocide. Removed for misinformation.

      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        You’re wrong. He’s been providing weapons and funding used to commit the genocide, sometimes even doing so without Congress.

        To claim that providing such invaluable resources via his own decisions isn’t participation is naive at best, disingenously excusing the crucial US role as inconsequential at worst.

        • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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          3 months ago

          No, he’s providing weapons and funding for the defense of Israel.

          Israel is misappropriating that support for the Genocide.

          Biden is not directly doing anything related to the Genocide, that’s all on Bibi.

          If I give someone $20 for lunch and they blow it on drugs instead, I’m not actively supporting their drug habit.

          • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            No, he’s providing weapons and funding for the defense of Israel.

            Israel is misappropriating that support for the Genocide.

            Disingenuous it is.

            At this point, he can’t have a shadow of a doubt what they’re using it for.

            If you’re giving some $20 knowing full well that they’re going to use them for drugs, you’re not giving them lunch money. You’re giving them drug money.

            Biden is providing weapons that he KNOWS are going to be used to commit genocide (which is in itself illegal according to US and international law btw), including weapons with no defensive purposes such as bombs.

            Your “he’s just innocently providing for their self defense” excuse is absolutely ridiculous and I very much doubt that you even believe it yourself.

            • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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              3 months ago

              It’s not being disingenuous.

              Biden has repeatedly stated, correctly, that Israel has the right to defend itself, as any other nation does:

              https://youtu.be/Oz1BAOjaTqs

              The funding is intended for that defense.

              Now, what Israel does with that support after we give it to them? That’s on them. We made the good faith donation, they’re the one abusing it.

              That does not make Biden complicit in Israel’s crimes.

              • foxontherocks@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                when someone deliberately does something violent to innocent people, attacking them *first * and you respond that they have the right to “defend themselves”, yes you are complicit.

                Israel isn’t and has never “defended” itself. It is the instigator of this conflict.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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                  3 months ago

                  Not on October 7th they weren’t. Nobody at that music festival was actively attacking Palestinians. Get that bullshit out of your head right now.

              • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                Biden has repeatedly stated, correctly, that Israel has the right to defend itself, as any other nation does

                Yes, but that’s demonstrably NOT what they’re doing and he knows it for a fact.

                The funding is intended for that defense

                That’s the official Hasbara gaslighting, sure, but it’s obviously not the truth.

                Now, what Israel does with that support after we give it to them? That’s on them.

                Not when it’s known beforehand. Again: providing weapons that you have reason to suspect MIGHT be used to commit war crimes is illegal according to both US and international law.

                In the case of Israel, it’s far beyond a reasonable suspicion, it’s an absolute CERTAINTY.

                We made the good faith donation

                No. If it had been in good faith, it would have stopped the moment there was evidence that it was being used for anything else than the stated purpose. That point was DECADES ago and the weapons are still coming.

                they’re the one abusing it.

                Again: Biden KNOWS without a shadow of a doubt what they’re using them for. He would have to be sundowning as badly as the worst Republican conspiracy theories claim he is to not know. And he isn’t.

                That does not make Biden complicit in Israel’s crimes.

                Yeah, it ABSOLUTELY does. He KNOWS what those weapons are used for and still he keeps sending them. That he’s unconvincingly pretending not to isn’t a valid excuse and thus doesn’t absolve him of his complicity.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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                  3 months ago

                  What Biden knows is irrelevant. He’s providing the support in good faith, Israel is abusing it. Specifically Bibi is abusing it. That is not Biden’s fault.

                  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    What Biden knows is irrelevant. He’s providing the support in good faith

                    That’s not how good faith works. Good faith is when you do something benevolent thinking that your actions aren’t going to have negative repercussions.

                    The fact that he KNOWS that to not be the case means that he is NOT acting in good faith.

                    Putting a “for self defense only, not genocide” sticker on a bomb that you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt is going to be used to commit genocide does NOT absolve you of your responsibility to not knowingly contribute to the genocide.

                    Specifically Bibi is abusing it. That is not Biden’s fault.

                    Right about the first part, wrong about the second.

                    While it’s of course PRIMARILY the fault of Netanyahu, the fact that Biden knows and still keeps the weapons coming makes him an indispensable accessory to Netanyahu’s crimes against humanity.

                    Without weapons there is no genocide. Most of the weapons come from the US. Ergo, without the US there is at WORST a genocide of a much smaller scale.

            • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Wrong on both accounts, since the entire world including Biden KNOWS what those weapons are going to be used for beforehand.

              He’s not sending bombs and missile guiding systems for self defense. He’s sending them to be used to commit genocide and he knows it.

              • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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                3 months ago

                This is a clear illustration of how you don’t understand how things work in politics and diplomacy. I suggest you brush up before engaging in discussions where the topic addresses these things.

                • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  I understand just fine that the US diplomatic and political stance is that Israel is exempt from all rules.

                  That doesn’t erase the genocide or the US complicity in It though, and if you think it does, YOU are the one who needs to reacquaint yourself with reality outside of the Zionist kayfabe before "engaging in discussions where the topic addresses these things“.

                  Also, could you possibly be any more arrogantly condescending? Please cut that shit out, lest you appear to suffer from a bad case of the Dunning Kruger effect.

                  • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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                    3 months ago

                    Again, I’m going to ask you to read up on how politics work before engaging any further. I truly believe it is in both of our best interest that you do this.