Out of curiosity, how often does something like this actually happen? More specifically: How often does a cop shoot someone who is attempting to commit suicide, who isn’t a threat to anyone else but themself, resulting in their death? Could anyone provide any relevant statistics?
A person stops answering their loved one’s calls or makes suicide threats to the loved one
The loved one calls the cops to ask them to check in on them
Said person answers the door with the weapon they were planning to end their life with in their hands
Cops see a weapon, panic and shoot
What I don’t understand is why cops don’t just disengage / retreat from these situations. In most cases it looks like they were proceeding as if the person had to be stopped / apprehended.
This is suicide by cop, OP was asking about situations where the subject is not a threat to anyone. A suicidal person with a gun is a threat as they can turn the weapon around and any time (and they often do).
Except somehow soldiers have more restraint in this situation than cops do. We trained relentlessly on not shooting unless they actually raise the gun up towards you. And talking them down through a language barrier until they could be safely detained or they tried to shoot us.
Cops shooting the literal second they think someone has a gun is unacceptable when I can get 18 year old asvab waivers to understand restraint.
Well i think we agree on your last point - and I might have assumed that the scenario is one where the person raises the gun toward the officer. Just having a gun isn’t always a crime, thinking someone might have a gun isn’t sufficient on its own either. Is this in reference to a specific encounter/incident or are we speaking hypothetically?
I will add though that the military rules of engagement might not do well to be applied to civilians at least that’s the mindset where I am. The idea that the police are like the military has some purpose I’m sure but at the same time it can be destructive - soldiers aren’t dealing with combatants who are in mental turmoil and police aren’t in war zones… I really like to emphasize that because its important to treat everyone with respect and not come in to every situation like its going to be hostile. The way I see it is my job isn’t to just come in and clean up the streets - it’s to enable to public to go about their lives as uninhibited as possible.
Speaking in general, but come on. Toss a stone and you’ll find an incident. Tamar Rice comes to mind. 12 year old pulls his shirt up and gets shot before he can do anything else.
Depends on the situation… you can get so many calls that sound the same but when you get there nothing about them are the same… if someone is jn their home talking to the suicide hotline that is different than someone who calls for armed police in a manor that warrants a high priority response the waiting in your home with a weapon… it COULD be harmless but that behavior is textbook suicide by cop and it happens more than people talk about.
I don’t have statistics but the stories of, “officers responding to a welfare check killed person having mental breakdown” are a fucking drumbeat in the mental health community.
Please don’t call the cops. Call for an ambulance or a mental health team if they have them in your area. Do not tell the operator you feel threatened unless you really are. You’ll get a faster response but it will not be predicated on helping the person, they’re going to attempt to restrain them first and foremost in that case and that’s where an OD of Ketamine, electricity, or lead kills them.
There is a lot of information about “suicide-by-cop”, but I cannot find any statistics about the kind of scene depicted. Mostly, the people killed in these interactions have, or act like they have, a weapon in order to provoke a violent response. Do a search for suicide-by-cop statistics and you get lots of interesting results. Cheers.
Out of curiosity, how often does something like this actually happen? More specifically: How often does a cop shoot someone who is attempting to commit suicide, who isn’t a threat to anyone else but themself, resulting in their death? Could anyone provide any relevant statistics?
In Canada it happens too often: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/police-wellness-checks-deaths-indigenous-black-1.5622320
The scenario is usually the following:
What I don’t understand is why cops don’t just disengage / retreat from these situations. In most cases it looks like they were proceeding as if the person had to be stopped / apprehended.
This is suicide by cop, OP was asking about situations where the subject is not a threat to anyone. A suicidal person with a gun is a threat as they can turn the weapon around and any time (and they often do).
Except somehow soldiers have more restraint in this situation than cops do. We trained relentlessly on not shooting unless they actually raise the gun up towards you. And talking them down through a language barrier until they could be safely detained or they tried to shoot us.
Cops shooting the literal second they think someone has a gun is unacceptable when I can get 18 year old asvab waivers to understand restraint.
Well i think we agree on your last point - and I might have assumed that the scenario is one where the person raises the gun toward the officer. Just having a gun isn’t always a crime, thinking someone might have a gun isn’t sufficient on its own either. Is this in reference to a specific encounter/incident or are we speaking hypothetically?
I will add though that the military rules of engagement might not do well to be applied to civilians at least that’s the mindset where I am. The idea that the police are like the military has some purpose I’m sure but at the same time it can be destructive - soldiers aren’t dealing with combatants who are in mental turmoil and police aren’t in war zones… I really like to emphasize that because its important to treat everyone with respect and not come in to every situation like its going to be hostile. The way I see it is my job isn’t to just come in and clean up the streets - it’s to enable to public to go about their lives as uninhibited as possible.
Speaking in general, but come on. Toss a stone and you’ll find an incident. Tamar Rice comes to mind. 12 year old pulls his shirt up and gets shot before he can do anything else.
What’s the threat if they’re alone in their own home?
Depends on the situation… you can get so many calls that sound the same but when you get there nothing about them are the same… if someone is jn their home talking to the suicide hotline that is different than someone who calls for armed police in a manor that warrants a high priority response the waiting in your home with a weapon… it COULD be harmless but that behavior is textbook suicide by cop and it happens more than people talk about.
I don’t have statistics but the stories of, “officers responding to a welfare check killed person having mental breakdown” are a fucking drumbeat in the mental health community.
Please don’t call the cops. Call for an ambulance or a mental health team if they have them in your area. Do not tell the operator you feel threatened unless you really are. You’ll get a faster response but it will not be predicated on helping the person, they’re going to attempt to restrain them first and foremost in that case and that’s where an OD of Ketamine, electricity, or lead kills them.
I have an autistic son, and the possibility that he could one day interact with police without my wife or I there is the stuff of nightmares to me.
Elijah McClain
Linden Cameron
Those two come to mind immediately. I’m quite sure there are more.
My neighbor’s kid is also autistic and on rare occasions used to randomly walk into our house.
Startled the shit out outta us, but luckily we aren’t the type of cowards who need a gun to feel safe.
There is a lot of information about “suicide-by-cop”, but I cannot find any statistics about the kind of scene depicted. Mostly, the people killed in these interactions have, or act like they have, a weapon in order to provoke a violent response. Do a search for suicide-by-cop statistics and you get lots of interesting results. Cheers.