No, seriously.
This mindset of, “If you don’t like to read pages of documentation to figure out how to do the thing you’re wanting to do, then maybe Linux isn’t for you?” Or the “god. How dare you ask such a STUPID question. You’re using Linux wrong and it probably isn’t for you. Go back to baby’s first OS!” Is the biggest gripe I have about using Linux.
Especially since the manpages are not written to always be comprehensible for end-users, but for developers and professionals. Some tools like tldr can help, however they rarely come preinstalled and aren’t getting the attention they deserve.
My gripe is “oh, you picked the wrong distro”
I just want my printer to work ffs
I’d put that one on the printer manufacturers. They love making them crappy.
So you ever tried support with windows? Go to some crappy community site with people who barely know what they are talking about and try some powershell and regedit crap.
Or go read conflicting Microsoft documentation that always seems to make man files look easy.
Its computers. You read stuff to deal with stuff, the OS is irrelevant.
I’ve been hearing about Linux elitists for the last 20 years, and I have yet to meet one. But what I do see is an endless wave of trolling and bad faith arguments about the supposed complexity of Linux.
They treat a wide array of developers, maintainers and enthusiasts as employees of Linux inc, and now they’re grumpy because their imaginary ticket submitted to a nonexisting helpdesk is not being processed.
I have recieved much more help and support from the Linux community than from any other proprietary software helpdesk.
I’ve been hearing about Linux elitists for the last 20 years, and I have yet to meet one.
Post/browse a help forum, it doesn’t take long to find them
YOU SHALL USE tty ON A 4K HDR SCREEN
I use Arch BTW!
In fairness sometimes users don’t want to hear the truth
I too have never seen this. I see a lot of people claiming they are there but don’t seen to find them. Been doing this a long time.
I can’t say I’ve ever ran into anyone like this. And the Arch wiki is so newbie friendly, I use it all the time and I don’t even use Arch.
Ive seen a lot of anti-gui sentiment but nothing I can remember enough to link to
The problem is that the road between creating a piece of software that does something well, and then creating simplification layers on top of it is typically much longer than just “edit a config file” and “here’s a readme”.
You need extra documentation, config gating and workflow, warnings, UI/UX work etc.
I know there are Linux elitists but kind of expecting that much extra work for what is still at it’s core mostly volunteer software seems like it’s own form of elitism.
Absolutely agreed, I find it extremely telling that most people who say that have never personally contributed nor donated. Its ok to have expectations but its not ok to make demands from volunteers, thats why so many devs get burnt out and leave.
The thing is, simple can mean two things, and they are quite often at odds with each other.
It can mean simple to understand, or simple to use.
For example, a piece of software that’s just a binary, a config file and a man page describing the config file and the software’s behavior is generally quite easy to understand. Like, you can fit the idea of the program entirely into your mind and “comprehend” it, though it may not be easy to use for a novice.
By contrast, a piece of software that contains additional layers for easy of use, like a GUI to edit options, may be simple to use, but not necessarily simple to understand. The additional layers add more complexity that does not contribute to core functionality of the program, it can become unclear what gets changed where when you click on buttons, the config file is likely not documented, human readable or editable, or it may even be a completely opaque configuration database (the registry), … So making the software more simple to use, often makes it harder to comprehend.
I, and I think many other nerds, like software that is simple in the “comprehensible” sense, we want to be able to wrap our head around it completely and we don’t mind putting in a little bit of effort to achieve that comprehension, whereas other people prefer to hit the ground running.
man this is a good linux meme, its funny and its real criticism of linux. why were all the linux memes shitty for a while there? why are they better now suddenly?
Hey, I installed Arch btw with Hyprland and I gotta say, the docs are super newbie-friendly. No problems on my end.
The Arch Wiki is so nice
luckily people seem to be becoming better with this.
linux is also becoming better at being user friendly.
This whole thread seems to be, primarily, people inventing strawmen and them a comment thread dogpiling them.
We have the “elitist Linux question answerer” and the “average user who is grandmother of 93 years that faints at the sight of terminal text” taking a lot of heat.
Many of stray shots at developers for having the audacity to provide access to the software that they made in their spare time without providing a full UX that compares to IOS.
The “fellow Linux users” who installed Linux 5 years ago, ran into a problem and declared Linux a failed experiment.
The OP isn’t even a good meme. It’s just ragebait.
The people who post these kind of things are not trying to improve the community. They’re concern trolling.
Nobody is “preventing simplification”. Anyone is more than welcome to fire up an IDE, clone a project and simplify whatever they feel like. That’s how the open source software ecosystem works. If you don’t like something then fix it.
You’re not a customer, you’re a community member. Making demands of other people isn’t going to go over well, but it isn’t because people are “elitist”.
I don’t want things to get simpler to the detriment of the power that Linux has. As long as there’s no regression who cares
Linux is so complicated!
Translation:
Linux actually isn’t Windows.
Absolutely this, im all in favor of making Linux more accessible but we dont need to become a Windows clone
Simplification is kind of vague
Just let the user decide
Yeah they probably mean easy. And probably easy for me, or what I already know.
That said, one of the complaints I commonly hear about Gnome is that it’s simplified to the point of being hard to use. So again, simplification is probably not what they mean.
Arch wiki btw
My only beef with this lately has been valutwarden.
like look, I get it, http is shit, but I’m on a local network and it isn’t shared or even published to the greater internet in any way… can’t I NO, YOU WILL USE DNS CERTS PER ARTICLE 1.2 OF THE INSTALLATION GUIDE AND YOU WILL SET UP A REVERSE PROXY WITH CLOUDFLARE…
ughhhh
I’ve seen the exact same assholes in this community. They’ll argue on one hand that it’s not too complicated, then openly push back against any UI improvement because they don’t want more people moving into their niche. Gatekeeping turds.
If you don’t like a particular piece of software move on to something else. It is entirely up to the dev since it is ultimately there project. They owe nothing to you and demanding things does nothing but annoy everyone.
I’m gonna point out the reluctance to improve the user experience to those who complain at the low number of user migrations. Try and stop me.
Example? Why are there always people who can find these unicorns and I never seem to run into them.
Or are you being extreme in calling gatekeeping because they feel they don’t need the GUI, because it just works? Someone argued with me about how a GUI is necessary for everything and frankly it is the slowest way to convey information and the least accurate.
But if YOU want a GUI, welcome to open source, and feel free to implement it.
Point is, I don’t think people are trying to gatekeep, or hold onto their niche, it just doesn’t make sense or scratch their own itch.
I’ve seen it in this very sub. But I’m not gonna hunt down the comments.
You have seen, in this sub, about Linux Memes in your words: “Gatekeeping Turds … who push back on UI improvements because they dont want people moving into their niche.”
Yeah. Right. This is exactly the place you have found a group of people who do not want you to make changes because they are defending… checks notes… the “niche” of open source software.
Yeah, I am thinking this might be a you problem. And I am trying to say this in a nice way: anyone can made that change. Asking someone else to do it may get push back, but that is any software development. Effort vs reward. But to claim the want to hold onto a niche… in open source? Uh… ok.
No worry dude. You don’t have to believe it. Now that you’re gonna be blocked, you won’t even have to see it.
Yeah. Blocked. A thing I have never done in 12 years at reddit or here.
So this person doesn’t want a conversation, and immediately goes to blocked while calling people names.
Yep it is a them problem.
And I always find it so strange, because when did people not be able to disagree? I have disagreed with some on on one topic and then found them in another forum being brilliant about that other thing.
This blocked, I never want to see or talk to you again, is something so new to me.
In the old days I would have just assume they are trolling. I am beginning to wonder if that isn’t their plan afterall.
Heres the thing, it strongly depends what you mean by “simplification” and tbh im not sure that would be good for Linux. Im all in favor of adding accessibility features and making desktops more complete but sometimes complexity or being different is good. I love tiling for example, I love how comsic implemets tiling. However tiling isnt naturally intuitive to Windows users, does that mean we need to abandon it in favor of “simplification”? Do we need to abandon the system of distro maintained repos and package managers because “its too complicated”?
I suppose my point is that we should make Linux more accessible by lowering the skill floor to use it but it should not and does not require lowering the skill ceiling for advanced users like me. I love the focus on TUI software and I love the terminal (that doesn’t mean GUI software should get less love, it means I would rather not see TUI packages sacrificed).
Furthermore I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I personally try to help people in matrix/discord chats and places like this. However sometimes I will come across someone whos use case doesn’t fit Linux. Maybe they need a specific software, maybe they’re using niche proprietary hardware that they need, but I personally refuse to suggest Linux to someone if it wont be good for them. If someone tells me “hey I use Linux but I need some software like adobe” I would suggest they reinstall Windows. In addition before I reccomend Linux to someone I tell them that Linux isnt Windows, I make it clear there are downsides that need to be taken with the upsides and sometimes things wont work exactly the same.
TLDR: Im all for people using Linux, however we shouldn’t lie to ourselves and others
