There is no “both sides” here. Russia invaded Ukraine, repeatedly since 2014, salami slicing it. It interfered in elections. It killed multiple people on foreign soil, using highly dangerous, banded methods, that could easily have killed many others than the target. Putin has completely destroyed any democracy in Russia and murders his opponents.
Countries joining NATO to get protection from Russia, or the EU, to get trade deals, is not remotely the same as Russia invading Ukraine in bloody war. Or any of the murderous shit Putin has done.
& that is just 1 source I was able to find in mere-seconds, as this issue has had entire books written on it.
BOTH sides commit imperialist narcissist machiavellian psychopathic nihilistic sadistic shit, while gaslighting the entire-world about it.
The difference is a difference of degree, not a “1 does it, the other doesn’t do it” difference,
& that has been true for … the last 8+ decades?
This is actually a fundamental problem with “politics”:
IF a particular machiavellian-operation is established,
AND a “new government” is elected,
Do you try resetting everything, in order to align with the temporarily-in-power new-electorate?
XOR do you just keep everything underhanded going as S.O.P, while letting the “politicians” play in the polls?
( this is intentionally a false-dichotomy: the right-answer is somewhere between, & keeps dynamically changing, as the country’s morality devolves/evolves )
Without periodic-review, there won’t ever be any accountability, & evil can just continue growing, endlessly, until the “deep state” really is the primary enemy of the country’s civil-rights…
With periodic-review, however, then … done by whom?
when?
At what intervals?
With what authority?
etc.
Therefore, the default is for evil to just continue growing…
As a collector-of-knowledge told me, years ago, the more he understood what had actually happened in the US molesting Nicaragua, via the CIA, & drug-cartels, etc…
the more he couldn’t figure-out who the bad-guys were supposed to be.
That is normal.
Spook stuff does everything it can to eradicate true-good & true-evil from all frames-of-reference!
that is by-design.
which is what makes it & some-people so … utterly-incompatible.
Frankly if someone supports Russia over the West, or “both sides” Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, I count them as either a Russia troll farm or a tankie.
The West does bad thing, but often with some misplaced good motives. It doesn’t do things like:
I’ve read that the CIA’s “heart-attack gun”, which shoots a frozen needle ( so it dissolves, leaving no “piece” to find ) of poison, explains a plague of heart-attacks among biomedical researchers, some years ago ( including those who refused to play any spook-games for anybody? either you’re working with us or you die? )
Israel is acting in a monsterous way that doesn’t make it think of it as part of the West. The US isn’t an angel, but that doesn’t make it like Putin’s Russia. It’s false equivalent. Though, with Trump, it could degrade so much I don’t see it as part of the West anymore. If it stops being a real democracy. It could even full apart as I don’t see all the States standing for it. Putin’s, and authoritarian’s everywhere, wet dream.
I’m claiming that it isn’t category-logic that is valid, it is degree-in-a-spectrum logic that is valid.
Believing that only Good™ & Bad™ are the only possible-conditions is false-dichotomy, false-framing.
1 is openly-evil, the other … is less evil, & works hard at hiding all the evil it does, from white eyes.
Israel holds it is Western, & treated as Western, in alignment, so it doesn’t matter if someone holds that “because of what they do, therefore they aren’t Western”: their centrality in the US’s military & international policy makes it Western in a functional sense.
Representative-republic ISN’T, & never was, democracy, & the electoral-college made the US 2-times-removed from democracy, not 1-times-removed, as a normal representative-republic was.
Trump-dictatorship just finishes converting it to an ideology-archy, is all.
It’ll take 7-8y for Trump to personality-convert to not-even-understanding-how-any-other-could-be-valid DarkHexad personality,
& then another 7-8y cycle for that personality’s dictatorship to BUTCHER the US of A, as the Confederate reverse-takeover enforces its race-±religion totalitarianism.
He promised his followers they wouldn’t have to vote anymore, & that is a promise I trust him to fulfil.
You identified very-few assassinations, but I linked to a whole damn table-listing of the US’s assassinations…
IF that doesn’t count, because you’ve already made-up your mind, that isn’t Empiricism, that is ideology/prejudice/“religion”/programming/Kahneman1-mind, & I’m fine with that being your religion: it is many people’s religion, & you’ve total constitutional right to your ideology/prejudice/religion/programming/Kahneman1-mind, as all Westerners do, it seems…
( the problem is wrong-granularity: Nazism can be called a “religion” & there’s no logically-valid falsification of that.
Instead of guaranteeing the constitutional right to any ideology/prejudice/religion/programming/Kahneman1-mind, the right needs to be much more precise, DISallowing DarkHexad principles or embodiements from being any guaranteed-right.
But that would violate the current “entitlement” to evil as a religion, wouldn’t it? )
Our view is whitewashed!
Holding that an acceptably-whitewashed view “proves” that our side isn’t evil … that hasn’t upright-spine in it, you know?
Here is a book I invested-in years ago, in order to discover if there was ANY truth to the “my whole view is whitewashed” position, & I figured that if I could understand 1 section of the book’s context rigorously-enough ( based on my knowledge of outside-evidence, stuff NOT in the book ), THEN I’d be able to judge whether the book was all conspiracist-delusion XOR whether it was proving that at-least a significant-percentage of what it was saying was … proving my belief to be what was baseless…
The section I dug-into was the systematic-assassination of biology researchers…
From what I could tell, it checked-out.
I never read any more of that book, because it’s too damn depressing.
So, when it takes mere-seconds to find, online, evidence of THOUSANDS of falsely-labelled EKIA “Enemy Killed In Action”, as it was Obama’s S.O.P. to simply label ALL who US bombing butchered “EKIA”, ignoring their being just families who lived there…
then the “evil XOR not-evil” false-dichotomy grates on my blood with its false-framing.
No matter.
Perhaps you hold that the evil the US does to its own not-have populations doesn’t count in G-D’s eye, either…
Most whites don’t…
In the 1st while of the BLM uprising there were 5 open lynchings in the Deep South, but … of course, … the police called all those hangings “suicide”, same as in the old days…
( read the Black news, when such events are happening, to get one’s eyes opened, I learned… )
I’m insisting that ignoring/denying OUR side’s evil can’t fool or convince G-D itself, & that objectivity is how it sees all,
& any Continuum/Soul which holds that it is child-of-G-D … that continuum NEEDS to get holding to G-D’s standards, including objectivity.
Seeing what actually IS, you know?
shruggeth
I’ve linked to evidence, & provided correct reasoning, but nobody has ANY obligation to tolerate that there’s ANY truth in either:
ideology/prejudice/religion/programming/Kahneman1-mind ( Kahneman’s “Thinking Fast and Slow”, THE most important book in all psychology, in the world, now
all the imprint->reaction mind, no matter what it’s labelled, has the right to ideologically reject both evidence & correct-reasoning.
WHEN one begins finding-out what’s being hidden by one’s own-side’s propaganda, there is nothing more demoralizing, more depressing, even betraying-of-one’s-belief.
Nothing.
But upright-ones require uprightness, & if “our side” has been warring against uprightness, then either we are accommodating it, XOR we are attacking it, for uprightness’s sake.
Same with any cancer: accommodating it produces future-life-destruction, whereas fighting it, really digging-in, COSTS, but may save one’s life, itself…
Ignore or dig-in, whichever you want.
I’ve provided enough examples-of-evidence, & no reader of this has any obligation to step outside of ideology & actually-consider evidence, let-alone keep-digging until even-more objective-view gets put in their gaze.
which is enough: Empiricists have all the convincing they need, & ideologues won’t ever be convinced, anyways: that is The Great Filter which will extinguish nearly-all of this-world’s population, this century’s deathmatch.
TLDR - if you don’t support Ukraine’s right to exist, I’m not interested in your opinion. There is no balance here. I’ve met and know too many Ukrainians.
There is no “both sides” here. Russia invaded Ukraine, repeatedly since 2014, salami slicing it. It interfered in elections. It killed multiple people on foreign soil, using highly dangerous, banded methods, that could easily have killed many others than the target. Putin has completely destroyed any democracy in Russia and murders his opponents.
This is a fact and has nothing to do with sides or teams. Both the west and russia are exmpansionist imperialistic powers
Countries joining NATO to get protection from Russia, or the EU, to get trade deals, is not remotely the same as Russia invading Ukraine in bloody war. Or any of the murderous shit Putin has done.
The person you’re arguing-against has a valid point…
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/25/1067966116/u-s-air-strikes-have-killed-thousands-of-civilians-nyt-magazine-investigation-fi
& that is just 1 source I was able to find in mere-seconds, as this issue has had entire books written on it.
BOTH sides commit imperialist narcissist machiavellian psychopathic nihilistic sadistic shit, while gaslighting the entire-world about it.
The difference is a difference of degree, not a “1 does it, the other doesn’t do it” difference,
& that has been true for … the last 8+ decades?
This is actually a fundamental problem with “politics”:
IF a particular machiavellian-operation is established,
AND a “new government” is elected,
Do you try resetting everything, in order to align with the temporarily-in-power new-electorate?
XOR do you just keep everything underhanded going as S.O.P, while letting the “politicians” play in the polls?
( this is intentionally a false-dichotomy: the right-answer is somewhere between, & keeps dynamically changing, as the country’s morality devolves/evolves )
Without periodic-review, there won’t ever be any accountability, & evil can just continue growing, endlessly, until the “deep state” really is the primary enemy of the country’s civil-rights…
With periodic-review, however, then … done by whom?
when?
At what intervals?
With what authority?
etc.
Therefore, the default is for evil to just continue growing…
As a collector-of-knowledge told me, years ago, the more he understood what had actually happened in the US molesting Nicaragua, via the CIA, & drug-cartels, etc…
the more he couldn’t figure-out who the bad-guys were supposed to be.
That is normal.
Spook stuff does everything it can to eradicate true-good & true-evil from all frames-of-reference!
that is by-design.
which is what makes it & some-people so … utterly-incompatible.
_ /\ _
Frankly if someone supports Russia over the West, or “both sides” Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, I count them as either a Russia troll farm or a tankie.
The West does bad thing, but often with some misplaced good motives. It doesn’t do things like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko
Perhaps you consider Israel to be not part of the West?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N7LQ2NR/
Or perhaps you consider the US to not be part of the West?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_by_the_United_States
I’ve read that the CIA’s “heart-attack gun”, which shoots a frozen needle ( so it dissolves, leaving no “piece” to find ) of poison, explains a plague of heart-attacks among biomedical researchers, some years ago ( including those who refused to play any spook-games for anybody? either you’re working with us or you die? )
NONE of our countries is “clean”, is my point.
Some are more overtly evil, than others, is all…
Israel is acting in a monsterous way that doesn’t make it think of it as part of the West. The US isn’t an angel, but that doesn’t make it like Putin’s Russia. It’s false equivalent. Though, with Trump, it could degrade so much I don’t see it as part of the West anymore. If it stops being a real democracy. It could even full apart as I don’t see all the States standing for it. Putin’s, and authoritarian’s everywhere, wet dream.
Believing that only Good™ & Bad™ are the only possible-conditions is false-dichotomy, false-framing.
1 is openly-evil, the other … is less evil, & works hard at hiding all the evil it does, from white eyes.
Israel holds it is Western, & treated as Western, in alignment, so it doesn’t matter if someone holds that “because of what they do, therefore they aren’t Western”: their centrality in the US’s military & international policy makes it Western in a functional sense.
Representative-republic ISN’T, & never was, democracy, & the electoral-college made the US 2-times-removed from democracy, not 1-times-removed, as a normal representative-republic was.
Trump-dictatorship just finishes converting it to an ideology-archy, is all.
It’ll take 7-8y for Trump to personality-convert to not-even-understanding-how-any-other-could-be-valid DarkHexad personality,
& then another 7-8y cycle for that personality’s dictatorship to BUTCHER the US of A, as the Confederate reverse-takeover enforces its race-±religion totalitarianism.
He promised his followers they wouldn’t have to vote anymore, & that is a promise I trust him to fulfil.
You identified very-few assassinations, but I linked to a whole damn table-listing of the US’s assassinations…
IF that doesn’t count, because you’ve already made-up your mind, that isn’t Empiricism, that is ideology/prejudice/“religion”/programming/Kahneman1-mind, & I’m fine with that being your religion: it is many people’s religion, & you’ve total constitutional right to your ideology/prejudice/religion/programming/Kahneman1-mind, as all Westerners do, it seems…
( the problem is wrong-granularity: Nazism can be called a “religion” & there’s no logically-valid falsification of that.
Instead of guaranteeing the constitutional right to any ideology/prejudice/religion/programming/Kahneman1-mind, the right needs to be much more precise, DISallowing DarkHexad principles or embodiements from being any guaranteed-right.
But that would violate the current “entitlement” to evil as a religion, wouldn’t it? )
Our view is whitewashed!
Holding that an acceptably-whitewashed view “proves” that our side isn’t evil … that hasn’t upright-spine in it, you know?
Here is a book I invested-in years ago, in order to discover if there was ANY truth to the “my whole view is whitewashed” position, & I figured that if I could understand 1 section of the book’s context rigorously-enough ( based on my knowledge of outside-evidence, stuff NOT in the book ), THEN I’d be able to judge whether the book was all conspiracist-delusion XOR whether it was proving that at-least a significant-percentage of what it was saying was … proving my belief to be what was baseless…
https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-History-Conspiracies-Cover-Ups-American-ebook/dp/B01KEL9Z82/
The section I dug-into was the systematic-assassination of biology researchers…
From what I could tell, it checked-out.
I never read any more of that book, because it’s too damn depressing.
So, when it takes mere-seconds to find, online, evidence of THOUSANDS of falsely-labelled EKIA “Enemy Killed In Action”, as it was Obama’s S.O.P. to simply label ALL who US bombing butchered “EKIA”, ignoring their being just families who lived there…
then the “evil XOR not-evil” false-dichotomy grates on my blood with its false-framing.
No matter.
Perhaps you hold that the evil the US does to its own not-have populations doesn’t count in G-D’s eye, either…
Most whites don’t…
In the 1st while of the BLM uprising there were 5 open lynchings in the Deep South, but … of course, … the police called all those hangings “suicide”, same as in the old days…
( read the Black news, when such events are happening, to get one’s eyes opened, I learned… )
I’m insisting that ignoring/denying OUR side’s evil can’t fool or convince G-D itself, & that objectivity is how it sees all,
& any Continuum/Soul which holds that it is child-of-G-D … that continuum NEEDS to get holding to G-D’s standards, including objectivity.
Seeing what actually IS, you know?
shruggeth
I’ve linked to evidence, & provided correct reasoning, but nobody has ANY obligation to tolerate that there’s ANY truth in either:
ideology/prejudice/religion/programming/Kahneman1-mind ( Kahneman’s “Thinking Fast and Slow”, THE most important book in all psychology, in the world, now
https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman-ebook/dp/B00555X8OA/ NONE of my links are “affiliate” links: read the sample, there, & invest-in-truth if you find something, anything, to be truth, if you want. You determine what you find to be true, obviously. )
all the imprint->reaction mind, no matter what it’s labelled, has the right to ideologically reject both evidence & correct-reasoning.
WHEN one begins finding-out what’s being hidden by one’s own-side’s propaganda, there is nothing more demoralizing, more depressing, even betraying-of-one’s-belief.
Nothing.
But upright-ones require uprightness, & if “our side” has been warring against uprightness, then either we are accommodating it, XOR we are attacking it, for uprightness’s sake.
Same with any cancer: accommodating it produces future-life-destruction, whereas fighting it, really digging-in, COSTS, but may save one’s life, itself…
Ignore or dig-in, whichever you want.
I’ve provided enough examples-of-evidence, & no reader of this has any obligation to step outside of ideology & actually-consider evidence, let-alone keep-digging until even-more objective-view gets put in their gaze.
which is enough: Empiricists have all the convincing they need, & ideologues won’t ever be convinced, anyways: that is The Great Filter which will extinguish nearly-all of this-world’s population, this century’s deathmatch.
Salut, Namaste, & Kaizen.
_ /\ _
TLDR - if you don’t support Ukraine’s right to exist, I’m not interested in your opinion. There is no balance here. I’ve met and know too many Ukrainians.