members of the military directed pepper spray at the military police who came to detain the soldiers.
Holy shit! It’s one thing when fascist politicians and their other brainwashed supporters resist justice, but when soldiers attack soldiers, “potential civil war” isn’t even hyperbole anymore!
In a country where almost all 18-21 year olds are in the army, you will have shit like that
Swiss here
No you don’t
If you don’t support the Israeli army raping people you are antisemite
important s/ because people don’t even know anymore
Nobody unironically says that
Netenyahu himself defended the actions of the imprisoned soldiers, saying anything can be done to detainees without restrictions because they are “terrorists”.
I think the only remotely sane person in the room was the one at the end who shouted “there are things you don’t do”. Albeit they’re all advocating for genocide, so none of them are respectable.
In the past Israel got away with everything by simply denying all allegations. That one politician realized they need to keep up the facade. The rest of them do not believe they have to hide their crimes anymore. Now they say out loud what they have meant the past eighty years.
Do that many people in Israel really support this?
I guess Lemmy doesn’t have a big enough Israeli community to answer that, but I have a hard time picturing an analogue for this in other countries.
Israeli here.
There is enough bad blood between us and the Palestinians for many people to approve the rape, and after 7.10 they feel confident enough to vocally support it. At least - the mob on the street and in social media. The more subtle right-wingers (as you may have guessed - this became a partisan thing) don’t condone the rape itself - but they have a few "but"s:
- They say that the soldiers are heroes that operate in harsh conditions, and we should be more forgiving toward such “venting”.
- They say that we should be more skeptic toward the testimonies of the released Palestinians prisoners, and should not start investigations based on their complains.
- They say that the arrest of the soldiers could have been done in a more peaceful and gentle way. (personal opinion - this argument is the only one that has some merit to it. Doesn’t justify the rampage though)
- The rampage against the arrest is a legitimate democratic protest, and the establishment is only handling it with extreme prejudice because it’s a right-wing thing.
I would think they detest the act, but they would argue it wasn’t rape because legally only a citizen can be raped and that the victims were traumatized repeatedly weren’t citizens.
And they will be angry at you for making them think about it.
They spent years dehumanizing palestinians. They probably don’t see them as human anymore, let alone citizens
legally only a citizen can be raped
Eh, that’s not how that works, that’s not how anything works
That’s how Israeli law works…
As the conversation in the Knesset I’ve linked below proves, it’s not a fringe opinion in israel.
Ok, just to answer this propaganda piece for future readers: Israel is now going through a faschist overtake. Israel’s faschist government’s actions are being objected by most Israelis, most past Israely politician 's from past MP’s to past PM’s. Most Israeli elites and most people involved in homeland security. There are active protests against the government and people are being arrested for it. Hope Democracy will win, you may continue the propanda now
The amount of protesters against the government is a tiny minority. Most of them do not even care about Palestinians but want the hostages back and their economy out of shambles.
Israel is an Apartheid not a democracy. The ICJ has recently ruled so.
Insane that this is real. 25 years ago I was riding a public bus where the driver said the USA should turn the region into an ash tray because there is no saving it. We all thought he was fucking nuts, but damn look at this shit. It’s hard to believe.
Your comment is like advocating for 9/11 . But far more extreme because it would be like Aghanistan was the party invading America for 75 years straight and Afghans getting mad Americans don’t roll over and die.
Update: Rape rioters won.
it becomes the first nation on earth to avoid civil war by allowing its military to rape prisoners
If this is true, it is only because usually the rapists got their way before enough people heard about it for it to become a civil war. Soldiers threatening mutiny unless they were allowed to rape people is a pretty common phenomenon in war.
Incidents like this almost certainly took place during the US American occupation of Okinawa, there just weren’t smartphones to relay the information to the general public, other soldiers, and the government so they could take positions. Maybe the prisoners will be tried at a later date, like the US did with some rapists in the US armed forces.
How can anyone defend this?
Well, you see, their enemies are brown.
What’s a Nukhba?
The israeli term for Palestinian since october.
Originally it meant elite Hamas forces which participated in the attack. But israel just calls every Palestinian they kidnap or kill a 'Nukhba fighter". Easy way to justify any war crime. Everything is Hamas.
They really are Nazis at this point, aren’t they.
They’re fascists, not nazis. I’m not saying that to castigate you but to make your point bullet proof.
Nazis are a very specific kind of anti Jewish (amongst other things) fascists.
The Nazis wanted the Jews out of Germany. If the Jews all move to Israel, the Nazis will say mission accomplished. Since its inception, Israel has been beloved by antisemites. Israel is fundamentally a Nazi project. Antisemitic to the core.
It makes you wonder why the nazis murdered them all instead of just sending them away from Germany…
Israel was a project made by British and American Christians, fresh from defeating the actual nazis, who wanted to colonise the middle East and to bring about the end of days. Facsist to the core but not anti Jewish or nazi.
Israel and the concept of Zionism predated the Nazis and WW2 by quite a few years.
Zionism did, but Israel didn’t exist until after WW2.
and to bring about the end of days
This angle wasn’t a thing until like the 80s.
It was the literally reasoning behind why the British Christian generals chose to go ahead with it, in the 1940s.
News to me. Is there some source to this?
There’s quite an overlap between Zionists and antisemites who wanted to force Jews out of Europe. Including the Nazis.
The Madagascar Plan (German: Madagaskarplan) was a plan proposed by the Nazi German government to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar. Franz Rademacher, head of the Jewish Department of the German Foreign Office, proposed the idea in June 1940, shortly before the Fall of France. The proposal called for the handing over of control of Madagascar, then a French colony, to Germany as part of the eventual peace terms.
In the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century, there were a number of resettlement plans for European Jews that were precursors to the Madagascar Plan. Paul de Lagarde, an Orientalist scholar, first suggested evacuating the European Jews to Madagascar in his 1878 … Members of the Zionist movement in 1904–1905 seriously debated the Uganda Scheme, by which Russian Jews, who were in immediate danger from ongoing pogroms in the Russian Empire, would be settled in the East Africa Protectorate (now Kenya), which was part of the British Empire at the time. The plan was later rejected as unworkable by the World Zionist Congress.
Adherents of territorialism split off from the main Zionist movement and continued to search for a location where Jews might settle and create a state, or at least an autonomous area.
Cool story, still not nazis though.
You keep saying that, and you keep being wrong.
One of the founding terrorist groups of israel tried to work with Hitler to colonize Palestine
It initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis, proposing a Jewish state based on “nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance”
Former Lehi leader Yitzhak Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel in 1983.
Early Zionist history is begging the biggest antisemites in the world for their own colony. Zionists made their peace with antisemites along time ago.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read today
I mean it’s not that far of from reality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
Tomato, tomato
Nope, its actually far closer to tomato, beef tomato.
All nazis and fascists. Not all fascists are nazis.
You got a point. The original fascist, Benito Mussolini, wasn’t even racist. He didn’t obsess about the Jews or other races as much as the Nazis did. What mattered to Italian fascism is if you subscribe to Italian nationalism.
Zionism is Fascism linked to ethnicity - ethno-Fascism - same as the NAZIs, whilst Mussolini’s version was traditional Fascism which is linked to nationalism.
The rabid racism, feelings of ethnic superiority and dehumanization of other specific ethnicities of ethno-Fascism result in far more cold and murderous behavior than mere nationalism.
All this is why we see from the Zionists the same kind of unbelievably murderous almost-inhuman behaviour, the same general extreme racist argumentation and even the same accusing of their critics of being against their ethnicity as the NAZIs.
The closest traditional Fascists get that is accusing their critics of being against their nation, but beyond that you don’t see anywhere near the level or rabid murderous violence against others merely because of their nationality or ethnicity from traditional Fascist as you see from ethno-Fascists.
Simply compare Russia’s behavior in Ukraine with Israel’s behavior in Gaza to see the veritable universe of difference in how murderous and uncaring both kinds of Fascist are, over the entire chain of command all the way down to the lowest foot soldier in their violence against the “other”, even if both kinds are are aggressive and violent: the Russians have targeted children maybe once or twice, from afar (i.e. missile attacks on schools) whilst the Israelis regularly bomb schools and playgrounds and their snipers shoot on the heads children who are simply playing inside their own homes: direct murdering if children whilst seeing their faces is a whole different level of inhumane behavior.
“Nazi” is more a colloquial term for “fascist who’s actually been allowed to practice their cruel and senseless fascist policies”, imo. Not someone saying that Israel is literally following the politics of one Adolf Hitler.
So yeah, in essence, these Israeli Jews are nazis, however ironic it sounds.
Nope, nazi is a specific term for a specific kind of fascist. Dont get me wrong, there are plenty of people who don’t understand the words that they use but thats not the same things as them being correct.
So no, the Israeli government are not nazis and only a moron would think that they were.
Yes, prescriptively, it’s a very certain type. You’ll notice how for instance in Wikipedia they’d capitalise the n in “Nazi”, while on forums you might see people using just “nazi”. Is there a difference? Yes. The same way “literally” means literally, but it can also be used just as emphasis. And that’s the opposite of it’s meaning.
Yet because some people like to use it that way, it’s accepted as a colloquialism into the language.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloquialism
Just like that wasn’t the first definition of nazi, so too “literally” has a several definitions.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/literally
Literally is also used to emphasize a statement and suggest that it is surprising:
See how that works?
You’re using the non capitalised version as well. So you’re incorrect. The Israeli government are nazis. They might not be Nazis, but they are nazis.
Thats actually a hilarious attempt at squaring this little antisemitic circle people where keep drawing.
Its funny that you provide links to everything but the part that could prove your nonsense to be true (that the meaning of nazi changes when a capital letter is used). Its literally something you just made up now, then claimed that (as colloquiums exist) the thing i just made up must be true.
How about you attempt to prove that the capitalisation of the “N” changes the meaning to not being nazis but, instead, “Jewish people we don’t like.”
There’s nothing you’ll ever accept as enough evidence that this is how language works and go “oh, okay, I think I was wrong.” That’s not even on the table. You’re literally not capable of even writing those words.
When you’re reading text, and it has the word “coke” in it, do you read it differently than “Coke”?
Could you perhaps take a guess at what’s the difference?
First one stands for (depending on the place of usage), any type of cola, cocaine or even any type of soda drink. that’s valid usage in the Southern US, calling a can of any carbonated sugary drink “coke” is perfectly fine. Whereas “Coke” is short for “Coca-Cola” and refers to the actual Coke.
Now unless I’m speaking to a second grader or something, you should be able to grasp the meaning of that. It works just like it does with “Nazi”, “nazi.”
No, I didn’t invent the rules of capitalisation
How about you attempt to prove that the capitalisation of the “N” changes the meaning to not being nazis but, instead, “Jewish people we don’t like.”
This has nothing to do with being a Jew and everything to do with being a small-minded, brainwashed, fascist genocide supporting piece of shit. In other words a nazi, as is the accepted colloquial usage.
Israeli government are despicable nazis.
Why would you make this about being Jewish?
Jewish people are great. Nazis fucking suck dick. Israeli government is full of nazis. Israeli government isn’t the same as Jewish people. That’s like saying that if I call Putler a fucking nazi, that I’m “just referring to Christians you don’t like”.
Like how fucking thick do you have to be to make that argument?
Israeli government are scum. Jewish people are lovely. And the true people of God are against this sort of nazi bullshit and would seek to make Israel face it’s sins.
The word “fascism” comes from Mussolini’s ideas and was later used to denote any political system with similar ideas. I think the use of the word “nazism” has been generalized in the same way.
Yup, facsism is the umbrella term under which the different facsist groups, like the nazis, fall under which is what I said already.
I know people who think god is real. They too are mistaken.
Are the Israelis murdering Jewish people on mass? If not, they’re not nazis.
They are zionist facists.
Are the Israelis murdering Jewish people on mass?
I mean, sort of by proxy they might be inspiring a bunch of hate crimes, and I wouldn’t be surprised if their actions on sort of a broader geopolitical scale are inspiring a kind of antisemitic cycle of violence, but I dunno if I’d say that makes them more specifically “nazis”, in like, the 20th century hitler ideology sense.
In any case, don’t be a linguistic prescriptivist, it’s cringe.
Language is descriptive, not prescriptive. Word meanings can change over time, the only thing that makes a word’s definition “correct” is if it successfully communicates information.
I’m not saying that to castigate you but to make your point bullet proof.
I actually agree with your definition, but arguing that a word’s definition is wrong simply because “thats not how it’s defined” ignores the way that real people actually use words today
Language is descriptive, not prescriptive. Word >meanings can change over time
While true, actually, it doesn’t mean “words can mean whatever the hell i want them to whenever I feel like it.” As crazy as it might seems, its actually not the same thing.
It does successfully communicate information. That much is the. Unfortunately though, it communicates that certain people choose antisemitism over accurately describing the thing they’re talking about. If that’s what they want to communicate, then yes, it was successfully communicated. If that wasn’t the intention, it fails the condition you listed.
While true, actually, it doesn’t mean “words can mean whatever the hell i want them to whenever I feel like it.” As crazy as it might seems, its actually not the same thing.
And who tried that?
We’re not talking about whether “rizz” is acceptable to use instead of “charisma”, (which would also constitute common usage), but something that’s been going on for more than 80 years.
Using “nazi” as a generalised term for fascists.
It’s accurate. It’s very accurate. Because what the Israeli are doing to Palestinians is very related to what the Nazis (notice the capital N) did to Jews during the Holocaust.
#neveragain
Israeli government are nazis. Pure and simple. You can keep crying over what you feel is an offensive and “inaccurate” term. Unfortunately for you it’s common usage no matter how badly you want to be blissfully ignorant of Israeli atrocities.
https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/Nazi
disapproving : an evil person who wants to use power to control and harm other people especially because of their race, religion, etc.
That’s literally the common use. Argue that away with your asinine examples, go ahead, I’ll wait.
Spling splong your opinion is wrong
Not an opinion.
Noun:
- (by extension) One who subscribes to or advocates (neo-)Nazism, or a similarly fascist, racist, anti-Semitic, xenophobic, ethnic supremacist, or ultranationalist ideology; a neo-Nazi.
Adjective:
(by extension) Domineering, totalitarian, or intolerant. synonym ▲ Synonym: fascist
IMO
not an opinion
Which one is it then?
Also, it is wrong:
Der Nationalsozialismus war keine geschlossene Lehre, sondern begründete eine »Weltanschauung«, in deren Mittelpunkt die Idee des »arischen Herrenvolkes« stand, das sich aller Mittel zu bedienen hat, um sich »Lebensraum« zu schaffen, andere (angeblich minderwertige) Völker und Nationen zu unterdrücken und die Welt vom (angeblich einzig Schuldigen, dem) Judentum zu befreien.
https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/lexika/politiklexikon/17892/nationalsozialismus/
I hold the opinion that that is so.
Me holding an opinion like it doesn’t make the fact more or less correct.
You’re trying to define the objective correctness of a fact, because you confuse my opinion for what it represents.
Why on Earth do you think linking German when discussing English colloquialisms would be in any way related…?
Calling Trump a Nazi because he has a Hitler book next to his bed? Perfectly fine. Enough evidence.
Calling israel Nazis because they’re committing Genocide in order to expand their Lebensraum? Let me pull up esoteric German sites which happen to have a definition to fit my narrative.
The Nazis weren’t just anti-Jewish, they were anti-anyone who isn’t Aryan. While the people here are basically only showing anti-Arab sentiments, if they held the same view to all other races then they would be analogous to Nazis.
I never said they were just anti Jewish.
Why are people here so married to calling Israeli Jewish people nazis? Such a weird hill to choose to die on.
Because it’s an extremely valid and apt comparison.
The Nazis were not defined by being anti-Jewish, yet you make out that because Israel is not discriminating against Jews they cannot be Nazis. The Nazis are defined by ethno fascism preferring a single race. For the Nazis, it’s Aryans; for Israel, it’s Jews. They’re so incredibly similar that you can pretty much call them the same - they’re basically two sides of a single coin.
Also, strictly speaking we’re not calling all Israelis Nazis, but the people running the country and committing genocide.
They were defined by both their hatred of Jewish people and their ethno fascism. Their hatred of Jewish people is a fundamental part of everything they did and the justification for all of it. If they didn’t like something, they declared it to be a Jewish conspiracy and attacked it.
Why are you so married to calling them a term that ensures everyone outside of certain cliques will automatically dismiss anything you have to say about the subject?
Why are you so vehemently defending an indefensibly evil group, all because I compared them to another indefensibly evil group?
Zionists are ethno-Fascists - Fascism linked to ethnicity rather than the nationalism of traditional Fascism - complete with things like ethnic superiority beliefs (and a general belief in some ethnicities being ubermensch and others untermensch), accusing critics of that Fascism of being against the ethnicity and surrounding themselves with the symbology related to the ethnicity.
It’s the same kind of Fascism as the NAZIS - who claimed to represent the Arian Race - had, complete with rabid racism and inhuman levels of murderous behavior against members of ethnicities deemed untermensch (who Zionists literally call “human animals”) and not at all the same kind of Fascism as, say, Mussolini (in Italy) or Franco (in Spain).
Zionism is far closer to NAZIsm than any other ideology, including all other Fascist ideologies, and their words and actions reflect that, so calling them NAZIs as a shortcut makes sense because that’s pretty much what they are, with the main difference being the ethnicity they claim to represent.
Sure, you can say they haven’t committed a Holocaust and the NAZIs did, but then again the NAZIs too didn’t start by committing a Holocaust - that only came later because nobody stood up against them until it was too late, exactly the same as being done with regards to the Zionists.
Cool story still not nazis though and its still antisemitic to call Jewish people nazis, due to the specific nature of nazis.
If anyone actaully cared about the words meaning and wanted to further the cause of palestinians, instead of just being antisemitic, they would simply adjust to using a term that won’t ensure everything they say afterwards is dismissed by the vast majority of society.
What you described is facsism and hallmarks of all fascism and none of the things that made nazis nazis, instead of regular facsists. The problem is, you don’t know the difference and you’ve presumed no one else does either. So you tried to blag it instead.
Ah, the good old “anti-semitic” slander from somebody making claims in the name of all Jews in order to defense the Neue NAZIs.
Such a wonderful illustration of the point In was making!
I mean, calling Jewish people nazis is literally in the definition of antisemitism. I know you’re not very good with words and their meanings but, to the resr of the world, the meaning of words is actually important.
I mean, a anyone has to do is call them fascsists which is still an insult to any decent person.
Why do you have to call them something that is universally known to be an antisemitic thing to xa them when you can achieve the same aims without the antisemitism?
Believe what you want to believe and may it chase you as you deserve every night.
But keep your goalpost moving grubby mitts from the idea you know words or are any good with them.
Being disingenuous is piss easy and transparent, cool the back patting.
Learn to read what others comment, so that at least you can keep consistency if you’re gonna clutter public forums with your drivel.
What the Israelis are doing to Gaza is pretty damn close to a Holocaust.
Always were.
Removed by mod
You mean israel killing 12 Druze children with an Iron Dome Missile as an excuse to bomb Lebanon?
If an Israeli dies, Hamas did it.
If a Palestinian dies, Hamas did it.
If an IDF soldier is caught on camera digging through a woman’s underwear drawer while the woman’s blood is still fresh on the walls, you’re being Antisemitic by talking about it.
