Microsoft announced last week that it will allow uninstalling Microsoft Edge in the European Economic Area (EEA) in compliance with the Digital Markets
I’m all for Linux and have been using it for years, but saying a 15min install is the only downside is disingenuous. For many people there are a few programs they rely on that won’t work on Linux, and hardware support and general user-friendliness are still not quite where they should be.
the vast majority of hardware is supported, and as someone who works IT and gives linux to the elderly, I don’t agree at all with the user unfriendliness, provided you use mint and kde.
If your software doesn’t run that does suck, but the vast majority of usecases work perfectly with the breif explanation of “use the app store for any software you need to install.” Do you have any examples of user friendliness issues, or is it just that there are choices to make at all?
“The vast majority” is useless if the hardware someone has doesn’t work, and you usually don’t get official support and warranty from the manufacturer for Linux. There are also some categories like webcams, audio equipment or fingerprint readers where Linux support is still notoriously bad. And even if something mostly works, it’s fairly common for some hardware to have missing features, instabilities or minor issues on Linux. E.g. my mouse works on Linux ofc, but the software to set and edit profiles doesn’t.
Usability issues are mostly cases where you have to fall back to the terminal. An example from my experience would be that trying to upgrade the system from the app store fails half the time, so I have to use the terminal. Another would be a failed boot or graphics issues due to a broken Nvidia driver installation or messed up SELinux policies. It’s all fixable in the terminal, but good luck if you can’t use that.
How much are you willing to bet? I give a hint, there is an open issue from 2016 on their GitHub about supporting the manufacturer of my mouse. And that’s pretty much the point, because on Windows I just get the software with the box and that’s it. Of course it’s closed source and stuff, but it still provides a better experience than no support at all. And that’s just one example, Linux also can’t use the highest available resolution of my webcam, and the fingerprint reader on my laptop has been completely unusable on Linux from day one.
Immutable distros fix most boot issues, in the sense that you can undo a failed change, but that’s about it.
Ofc Windows has its fair share of issues, but it just doesn’t break as much in my experience. Probably because they have orders of magnitude more people working on finding and fixing consumer issues, incl. from 3rd party device and software manufacturers.
I’m sorry, but you’re lying to yourself if you think consumer support is on par with Windows. It’s getting closer and closer every year, but we are not there yet.
You can not agree with OP, but that doesn’t change reality. Linux is a pain to use for a regular user. Linux doesn’t support some programs that people depend on and have learned to use. Those things aren’t an issue for Windows, people don’t need to look around for fixes.
I get it, you like it. But the reality of it is - it’s a niche operating system for home use for a reason.
I don’t agree that it’s a pain for the regular user, I think it’s a pain if you use niche software, or software that’s designed to not run on linux intentionally.
Outside of that, it works perfectly fine. The vast VAST majority of users will not miss any software.
Linux doesn’t support some programs that people depend on and have learned to use.
Weird that Linux can’t run some applications written specifically for Windows. It’s a nitpick, but your sentence should be “some programs don’t support Linux”, because the issue isn’t with the OS, it’s with the developers of the software.
In any case, outside of some specific examples, most Windows software actually does work on Linux thanks to Wine and Proton.
Those things aren’t an issue for Windows, people don’t need to look around for fixes.
Maybe not, but they need to look around for fixes to dozens of other issues that shouldn’t exist. Like getting rid of ads in your OS.
Who gives a shit what’s the reason a critical program isn’t running on linux? It doesn’t work. That’s what counts to me, a user of this program. I won’t switch to linux as long as the things I need don’t work there. I won’t learn alternatives simply to be able to say “I use linux”. A lot of people share that sentiment, since for them, the OS they are using is a tool, not a way of life.
I won’t switch to linux as long as the things I need don’t work there.
Perfectly fine, but it doesn’t discount what I said before.
A lot of people share that sentiment, since for them, the OS they are using is a tool, not a way of life.
You’re right about this also. I want my OS to work for me and I want to not have to fight against the OS to get things done. For me that’s Linux. When I used to use Windows regularly it was nothing but annoyance and hindrances.
Honestly true. At the very most you have to make certain switches to some software. For elderly people these switches are pretty minor since often they aren’t needing something like industry software for their work and at most will need to switch to like… LibreOffice, OnlyOffice or something of the sort. Not hard. For people in a job that may need design software like any Adobe product, there are
Plenty of alternatives that work pretty well. Main thing is just spending a few days to get used to it and learning the differences. Only big thing I’d say that would be very hard to switch to Linux is if you make Music. Because if you use FL Studio, the closest alternative is LMMS… and it sorta sucks and at times is very uncomfortable to work with. You’d probably have to switch to Ardour or Reaper which would be a pretty massive change… Overall though, those account for a small number of people.
I’m all for Linux and have been using it for years, but saying a 15min install is the only downside is disingenuous. For many people there are a few programs they rely on that won’t work on Linux, and hardware support and general user-friendliness are still not quite where they should be.
the vast majority of hardware is supported, and as someone who works IT and gives linux to the elderly, I don’t agree at all with the user unfriendliness, provided you use mint and kde.
If your software doesn’t run that does suck, but the vast majority of usecases work perfectly with the breif explanation of “use the app store for any software you need to install.” Do you have any examples of user friendliness issues, or is it just that there are choices to make at all?
“The vast majority” is useless if the hardware someone has doesn’t work, and you usually don’t get official support and warranty from the manufacturer for Linux. There are also some categories like webcams, audio equipment or fingerprint readers where Linux support is still notoriously bad. And even if something mostly works, it’s fairly common for some hardware to have missing features, instabilities or minor issues on Linux. E.g. my mouse works on Linux ofc, but the software to set and edit profiles doesn’t.
Usability issues are mostly cases where you have to fall back to the terminal. An example from my experience would be that trying to upgrade the system from the app store fails half the time, so I have to use the terminal. Another would be a failed boot or graphics issues due to a broken Nvidia driver installation or messed up SELinux policies. It’s all fixable in the terminal, but good luck if you can’t use that.
I would not agree that is common at all, these are edge cases and I bet your mouse works with piper.
plus soon immutable distros will fix any chance of system breakages, and it’s not like similar things don’t regularly happen on windows.
How much are you willing to bet? I give a hint, there is an open issue from 2016 on their GitHub about supporting the manufacturer of my mouse. And that’s pretty much the point, because on Windows I just get the software with the box and that’s it. Of course it’s closed source and stuff, but it still provides a better experience than no support at all. And that’s just one example, Linux also can’t use the highest available resolution of my webcam, and the fingerprint reader on my laptop has been completely unusable on Linux from day one.
Immutable distros fix most boot issues, in the sense that you can undo a failed change, but that’s about it.
Ofc Windows has its fair share of issues, but it just doesn’t break as much in my experience. Probably because they have orders of magnitude more people working on finding and fixing consumer issues, incl. from 3rd party device and software manufacturers.
I’m sorry, but you’re lying to yourself if you think consumer support is on par with Windows. It’s getting closer and closer every year, but we are not there yet.
You can not agree with OP, but that doesn’t change reality. Linux is a pain to use for a regular user. Linux doesn’t support some programs that people depend on and have learned to use. Those things aren’t an issue for Windows, people don’t need to look around for fixes.
I get it, you like it. But the reality of it is - it’s a niche operating system for home use for a reason.
I don’t agree that it’s a pain for the regular user, I think it’s a pain if you use niche software, or software that’s designed to not run on linux intentionally.
Outside of that, it works perfectly fine. The vast VAST majority of users will not miss any software.
I’ve dealt with enough regular uses to know that no, it’s not good for regular users. But you do you - I know that it isn’t ready.
I’ve done the same, I don’t think windows is ready for normal users.
Demonstrably false.
Weird that Linux can’t run some applications written specifically for Windows. It’s a nitpick, but your sentence should be “some programs don’t support Linux”, because the issue isn’t with the OS, it’s with the developers of the software.
In any case, outside of some specific examples, most Windows software actually does work on Linux thanks to Wine and Proton.
Maybe not, but they need to look around for fixes to dozens of other issues that shouldn’t exist. Like getting rid of ads in your OS.
Who gives a shit what’s the reason a critical program isn’t running on linux? It doesn’t work. That’s what counts to me, a user of this program. I won’t switch to linux as long as the things I need don’t work there. I won’t learn alternatives simply to be able to say “I use linux”. A lot of people share that sentiment, since for them, the OS they are using is a tool, not a way of life.
Perfectly fine, but it doesn’t discount what I said before.
You’re right about this also. I want my OS to work for me and I want to not have to fight against the OS to get things done. For me that’s Linux. When I used to use Windows regularly it was nothing but annoyance and hindrances.
Honestly true. At the very most you have to make certain switches to some software. For elderly people these switches are pretty minor since often they aren’t needing something like industry software for their work and at most will need to switch to like… LibreOffice, OnlyOffice or something of the sort. Not hard. For people in a job that may need design software like any Adobe product, there are Plenty of alternatives that work pretty well. Main thing is just spending a few days to get used to it and learning the differences. Only big thing I’d say that would be very hard to switch to Linux is if you make Music. Because if you use FL Studio, the closest alternative is LMMS… and it sorta sucks and at times is very uncomfortable to work with. You’d probably have to switch to Ardour or Reaper which would be a pretty massive change… Overall though, those account for a small number of people.
edit: I meant to say this to the one you replied to!
I agree with you. Plus, most of us are forced to use Windows 11 at work, where we spend most of our screen time.
Maybe I can bother with Linux at home, but that’s a fraction of the use case here.
I agree with you. Plus, most of us are forced to use Windows 11 at work, where we spend most of our screen time.
Maybe I can bother with Linux at home, but that’s a fraction of the use case here.
In fact, installation is one of the easiest parts unless you use vanilla arch