The science does support it, it just doesn’t conclusively prove it. Welcome to how science works.
And it’s really just shorthand for “this wasnt a choice”, so yeah, it’s not their ‘fault’.
Now, we can debate all day about whether it’s a set of genes they’re born with, or a set of genes that activate during puberty when exposed to hormones and the environment. But at the end of the day it doesn’t make a difference. No one chooses being gay.
And if your argument is that, yes, people do choose being gay because YOU chose being straight, then I’ve got some fun news to share with you.
You are strawmaning me pretty hard here.
My point is, it does not matter whether it’s a choice or not. That is the argument the homophobes bring and I refuse to engage with it.
I also NEVER even implied it is a choice to begin with. The current model involves genetics as well as very early childhood experience, definitely not a “choice”.
What matters is, there’s nothing wrong with being gay. Regardless of what makes us gay.
I also NEVER even implied it is a choice to begin with.
Ridiculous. You said the science doesn’t support the idea that we are born gay.
I understand (and disagree) with your main point about “arguing on the terms of homophobes”, but if you can’t acknowledge what YOUR words CLEARLY implied then you are the one arguing in bad faith.
That does not mean it is a choice. Like I linked in the other comments, there are studies on identical twins where the concordance is around 60-70%. That still leaves a lot of room for other factors (none of which are a conscious decision).
There’s a pretty big field between “We are born gay and it is 100% genetic” and “sexuality is a choice”, it’s not a dichotomy.
To be clear, it doesn’t matter how you try to clarify your point in later comments.
The reason people are responding to you negatively, as if you implied being gay was a choice, was because that’s what you implied. The VAST majority of people read it that way.
If you aren’t capable of saying “I can understand that I phrased my initial point badly, I’m sorry. Here’s what I actually mean:”, then you simply aren’t worth talking to. You can be as self righteous as you want, or try to twist what you said earlier into being technically correct, but it just doesn’t matter. You have zero right to condescend to people who read and responded to the actual words you said.
My comment was written poorly and it was rightfully downvoted. I did my best to explain my thoughts in the comments and edited my initial comment to add context.
I have no ill will towards people reacting negatively, I did my best to explain my stance, certainly did not intend for it to sound condescending.
I’m not here to win you over and it really doesn’t seem like there’s any actual discussion happening anymore, so I’ll peace out.
Have a nice day.
The science does support it, it just doesn’t conclusively prove it. Welcome to how science works.
And it’s really just shorthand for “this wasnt a choice”, so yeah, it’s not their ‘fault’.
Now, we can debate all day about whether it’s a set of genes they’re born with, or a set of genes that activate during puberty when exposed to hormones and the environment. But at the end of the day it doesn’t make a difference. No one chooses being gay.
And if your argument is that, yes, people do choose being gay because YOU chose being straight, then I’ve got some fun news to share with you.
You are strawmaning me pretty hard here. My point is, it does not matter whether it’s a choice or not. That is the argument the homophobes bring and I refuse to engage with it.
I also NEVER even implied it is a choice to begin with. The current model involves genetics as well as very early childhood experience, definitely not a “choice”.
What matters is, there’s nothing wrong with being gay. Regardless of what makes us gay.
Ridiculous. You said the science doesn’t support the idea that we are born gay.
I understand (and disagree) with your main point about “arguing on the terms of homophobes”, but if you can’t acknowledge what YOUR words CLEARLY implied then you are the one arguing in bad faith.
That does not mean it is a choice. Like I linked in the other comments, there are studies on identical twins where the concordance is around 60-70%. That still leaves a lot of room for other factors (none of which are a conscious decision).
There’s a pretty big field between “We are born gay and it is 100% genetic” and “sexuality is a choice”, it’s not a dichotomy.
To be clear, it doesn’t matter how you try to clarify your point in later comments.
The reason people are responding to you negatively, as if you implied being gay was a choice, was because that’s what you implied. The VAST majority of people read it that way.
If you aren’t capable of saying “I can understand that I phrased my initial point badly, I’m sorry. Here’s what I actually mean:”, then you simply aren’t worth talking to. You can be as self righteous as you want, or try to twist what you said earlier into being technically correct, but it just doesn’t matter. You have zero right to condescend to people who read and responded to the actual words you said.
I think this is an overreaction to someone trying to explain and clarify their point honestly
Honest is not the vibe I get. I see someone trying to weasel into a position of “I was right all along”
However, I appreciate your perspective. My own hostility may be disproportionate, I will more carefully consider this in the future
My comment was written poorly and it was rightfully downvoted. I did my best to explain my thoughts in the comments and edited my initial comment to add context.
I have no ill will towards people reacting negatively, I did my best to explain my stance, certainly did not intend for it to sound condescending.
I’m not here to win you over and it really doesn’t seem like there’s any actual discussion happening anymore, so I’ll peace out. Have a nice day.