It’s not a myth though. How do you know what to type in a CLI? You either google it or you read the man pages and god help you if you have to do that because they are not noob accessible documents. What do you do in a GUi? You either google it or you read plain words that are low in technical information on the screen in the menu labeled after what you want to change. GUIs exist for a reason. They brought in the masses for a reason. Pretending that they aren’t easier is a demonstrably wrong position.
The same way you know where the setting you’re after located. As my little experiment showed it’s not obvious if your problem isn’t trivial. And if it’s trivial, you can be sure it’s trivial on every modern OS.
If you spend a fraction of time you spent learning your GUI on learning the set of commands you have, it will be very easy for you. There is autocomplete and there are various helps, and there are conventions a lot of the software follows. If you’re literate, it’s fine.
It’s funny you listing out that experiment, because that’s more akin to the bullshit I run into with Linux when I need to fix some weird ass quirk. Tons if incorrect or outdated information, and forum assholes calling people idiots for not knowing and refusing to help or being autistically pedantic because you misspelled something. Support on either platform is a garbage experience. I haven’t denied that at all.
It’s a curse of the tech world. There are always some bullshit problems, there is always the need for tuning, tinkering, and generally fucking around with your system. No matter the OS, you will encounter some non-trivial problem at some point, that’s just the price of complexity. At least Linux is made for that and is opensource.
What is that reason? To obfuscate what is really happening? To make it difficult to support a computer because it takes 20 pages of pictures and a flow chart to explain something when a person could just copy paste a single line? I don’t buy that gui’s are easier or intuitive, or all that useful every time.
I don’t see any difference googling using a decent search engine for one over the other.
And lets not forget that windows is a confusing mess of self help support pages and command line entries for almost everything that goes wrong.
You can definitely have your opinion. But seeing how so many people have a hard time switching to Linux because of this particular issue, I’d say your position on the subject is quesionable. There are hordes more people on Windows and Mac because they made things easier through accessible software. A large part of that was the GUI.
Most people I know that are on Windows are there for two reasons: they either have no idea what they’re doing, they bought a laptop that had Windows on it already, they have a flowchart of buttons to press to achieve results, and when interface changes, they are in panic and I need to come to them to make a new flowchart. Or they’re using Windows for the last two decades, never tried anything else, and know about Linux from random comments on the internet that scare them into believing that evil Linux is completely incomprehensible.
My wife is an English teacher. When we got her a new laptop, instead of buying Windows, I installed Arch (I use Arch btw), which is wildly considered the most evil of the evil Linuxes, and believe it or not, she is completely happy with it (well, as happy as one can be using a computer). The amount of times she needs my help with some random bullshit OS throws at her decreased since she learned a bit about how stuff works. Even using terminal to input some commands turned out not to require wast amount of knowledge like some people imply.
Because it came with their computer. I have not used a command line at all on two laptops over the past year. It is the exception not the rule these days.
However I have had to use the command line many, many times with Windows. Which is fine, it is MUCH easier to do this “Set-ExecutionPolicy -Scope CurrentUser -ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted” instead of trying to find the gui to deal with it.
That example just proves my point further. No average joe is going to alter the execution policy because they aren’t running unsigned powershell scripts. They just want their applications to install and work. They don’t want to debug shit. You being fine doing all that is great but other people don’t want to mess with it and won’t.
Half the time instead of downloading and running an executable that works with nearly all versions of their OS, they have to figure out which os flavor they have since it’s not just “Linux” it’s Debian, Red Hat, Arch, Kali, Suse, CentOS, Mint, Pop, Ubuntu, etc. and then does it need to be compatible with gnome or kde or something else, then is the configuration even a supported option, oh wait it only supports versions newer than 5 years where anything older will fail, or only till 5 years ago and anything newer will fail. Or the one project that solved the issue stopped developing it 10 years prior and no longer works. Or there just plain isn’t a native app so now you have to try and find an alternative way to connect to a service you pay for that has an equivalent feature set and price.
Linux is a fractured mess overall. It is not user friendly. It is not out of the box ready. It’s a great option for someone technical that wants to type shit in a terminal. And it’s a bad option for anyone that doesn’t want to figure out what the magic words are that took the place of their double click.
My example wasn’t literal, I have had to do similar things for drivers, sound, USB, search etc. And windows support is just randos telling you what they think might work.
As to your second point, the sane applies as windows is a collection of who knows that the hell software and random hardware. Which hardware? What driver? What vendor?
But I can select nearly any software since Windows 7 and it will still work on windows 10/11. That is far less common on linux. It’s more a rule on windows with some exceptions vs linux being the inverse.
Support is stupid for both platforms. I don’t even want to touch that mess. Assholes and cunts on both sides and in different ways.
It may work, but it also may fuck up something else. I run into that a lot with users and windows. How do they fix it or get rid of it? Say hello to our friend regedit!
Again though, those times are more exceptions than rules. I’m not saying Linux hasn’t come a long way. A lot of the distros I’ve worked with are much better than they were a decade ago. They just still aren’t the oobe needed to capture general end users.
We are doing a review of all of our software to prep for Windows 11 right now. It’s not going nearly as well as you think because not all software is consumer-grade.
Not too long ago a bunch of our scientific devices got knocked out by Microsoft fixing an old serial bug. Turns out all the software to run these was built to workaround the bug and quite a few of these items are long since unsupported (or the vendor is gone). Some of these are tens of thousands of dollars, we can’t just replace these on a whim.
I’m aware not all software is consumer grade. And many depts like sci/lad/manufacturing/medical definitely have more to worry about with upgrades. Windows 11 is a shit show even at the consumer level, I’d hate to be managing a migration to it for an office, let alone any dept relying on custom hardware. But blaming windows for something that would just as easily happen on a linux machine is a bit disingenuous. Upgrades break shit across all the OSes. I’ve had to rebuild linux servers because an upgrade would break them and keeping them air gapped on a closed loop wasn’t an option.
It’s not a myth though. How do you know what to type in a CLI? You either google it or you read the man pages and god help you if you have to do that because they are not noob accessible documents. What do you do in a GUi? You either google it or you read plain words that are low in technical information on the screen in the menu labeled after what you want to change. GUIs exist for a reason. They brought in the masses for a reason. Pretending that they aren’t easier is a demonstrably wrong position.
The same way you know where the setting you’re after located. As my little experiment showed it’s not obvious if your problem isn’t trivial. And if it’s trivial, you can be sure it’s trivial on every modern OS.
If you spend a fraction of time you spent learning your GUI on learning the set of commands you have, it will be very easy for you. There is autocomplete and there are various helps, and there are conventions a lot of the software follows. If you’re literate, it’s fine.
It’s funny you listing out that experiment, because that’s more akin to the bullshit I run into with Linux when I need to fix some weird ass quirk. Tons if incorrect or outdated information, and forum assholes calling people idiots for not knowing and refusing to help or being autistically pedantic because you misspelled something. Support on either platform is a garbage experience. I haven’t denied that at all.
It’s a curse of the tech world. There are always some bullshit problems, there is always the need for tuning, tinkering, and generally fucking around with your system. No matter the OS, you will encounter some non-trivial problem at some point, that’s just the price of complexity. At least Linux is made for that and is opensource.
What is that reason? To obfuscate what is really happening? To make it difficult to support a computer because it takes 20 pages of pictures and a flow chart to explain something when a person could just copy paste a single line? I don’t buy that gui’s are easier or intuitive, or all that useful every time.
I don’t see any difference
googlingusing a decent search engine for one over the other.And lets not forget that windows is a confusing mess of self help support pages and command line entries for almost everything that goes wrong.
Windows: “PROGRAM_NAME experienced an error: DEEZ_NUTZ”
Yep that’s what we’re calling a useful error prompt these days. So much better than Linux lol
“I’m sowwy, something went wrong :(”. No logs, no error message, no nothing.
God I hate it so much.
You can definitely have your opinion. But seeing how so many people have a hard time switching to Linux because of this particular issue, I’d say your position on the subject is quesionable. There are hordes more people on Windows and Mac because they made things easier through accessible software. A large part of that was the GUI.
Most people I know that are on Windows are there for two reasons: they either have no idea what they’re doing, they bought a laptop that had Windows on it already, they have a flowchart of buttons to press to achieve results, and when interface changes, they are in panic and I need to come to them to make a new flowchart. Or they’re using Windows for the last two decades, never tried anything else, and know about Linux from random comments on the internet that scare them into believing that evil Linux is completely incomprehensible.
My wife is an English teacher. When we got her a new laptop, instead of buying Windows, I installed Arch (I use Arch btw), which is wildly considered the most evil of the evil Linuxes, and believe it or not, she is completely happy with it (well, as happy as one can be using a computer). The amount of times she needs my help with some random bullshit OS throws at her decreased since she learned a bit about how stuff works. Even using terminal to input some commands turned out not to require wast amount of knowledge like some people imply.
Because it came with their computer. I have not used a command line at all on two laptops over the past year. It is the exception not the rule these days.
However I have had to use the command line many, many times with Windows. Which is fine, it is MUCH easier to do this “Set-ExecutionPolicy -Scope CurrentUser -ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted” instead of trying to find the gui to deal with it.
That example just proves my point further. No average joe is going to alter the execution policy because they aren’t running unsigned powershell scripts. They just want their applications to install and work. They don’t want to debug shit. You being fine doing all that is great but other people don’t want to mess with it and won’t.
Half the time instead of downloading and running an executable that works with nearly all versions of their OS, they have to figure out which os flavor they have since it’s not just “Linux” it’s Debian, Red Hat, Arch, Kali, Suse, CentOS, Mint, Pop, Ubuntu, etc. and then does it need to be compatible with gnome or kde or something else, then is the configuration even a supported option, oh wait it only supports versions newer than 5 years where anything older will fail, or only till 5 years ago and anything newer will fail. Or the one project that solved the issue stopped developing it 10 years prior and no longer works. Or there just plain isn’t a native app so now you have to try and find an alternative way to connect to a service you pay for that has an equivalent feature set and price.
Linux is a fractured mess overall. It is not user friendly. It is not out of the box ready. It’s a great option for someone technical that wants to type shit in a terminal. And it’s a bad option for anyone that doesn’t want to figure out what the magic words are that took the place of their double click.
My example wasn’t literal, I have had to do similar things for drivers, sound, USB, search etc. And windows support is just randos telling you what they think might work.
As to your second point, the sane applies as windows is a collection of who knows that the hell software and random hardware. Which hardware? What driver? What vendor?
But I can select nearly any software since Windows 7 and it will still work on windows 10/11. That is far less common on linux. It’s more a rule on windows with some exceptions vs linux being the inverse.
Support is stupid for both platforms. I don’t even want to touch that mess. Assholes and cunts on both sides and in different ways.
This is so demonstrably, laughably not true it’s not even funny.
Granted it is becoming less true on 11. But I am not wrong about the rest. I run into abandonware that doesn’t work far more with Linux.
It may work, but it also may fuck up something else. I run into that a lot with users and windows. How do they fix it or get rid of it? Say hello to our friend regedit!
Again though, those times are more exceptions than rules. I’m not saying Linux hasn’t come a long way. A lot of the distros I’ve worked with are much better than they were a decade ago. They just still aren’t the oobe needed to capture general end users.
We are doing a review of all of our software to prep for Windows 11 right now. It’s not going nearly as well as you think because not all software is consumer-grade.
Not too long ago a bunch of our scientific devices got knocked out by Microsoft fixing an old serial bug. Turns out all the software to run these was built to workaround the bug and quite a few of these items are long since unsupported (or the vendor is gone). Some of these are tens of thousands of dollars, we can’t just replace these on a whim.
I’m aware not all software is consumer grade. And many depts like sci/lad/manufacturing/medical definitely have more to worry about with upgrades. Windows 11 is a shit show even at the consumer level, I’d hate to be managing a migration to it for an office, let alone any dept relying on custom hardware. But blaming windows for something that would just as easily happen on a linux machine is a bit disingenuous. Upgrades break shit across all the OSes. I’ve had to rebuild linux servers because an upgrade would break them and keeping them air gapped on a closed loop wasn’t an option.