uh, no? These are literally two irrelevant concepts.
If you want to complain about the fact that the biden/harris admin have less than desirable stances on the israel/palestine problem, by all means do that. But i don’t see how this is relevant to anything to do with beating trump. Because the statistics literally show that 75 million people voted for kamala harris this election. to the 77 million who voted for trump. Could that specific issue push her over the edge? Maybe, maybe not. It’s impossible to know unless you do incredibly in depth study on it.
This is literally the meme of “if only it wasn’t slightly too cold for me to comfortably go on a run right now, otherwise i would totally be taking care of my physical fitness, instead i will do nothing.”
Harris purposely ignored and pushed away parts of her base that cared about Palestine. She also refused to let a single Palestinian-American Democrat speak at the DNC.
That is prioritizing the genocide over the campaign
Harris purposely ignored and pushed away parts of her base that cared about Palestine.
because it’s primarily people under the age of 25. And a very small voter demographic, maybe arabic people also, but arabic people are decidedly biased against israel for obvious reasons.
She also refused to let a single Palestinian-American Democrat speak at the DNC.
i don’t know of any incidents regarding kamala, or her team publicly refusing the ability of a Palestinian to speak, but i could be wrong. If i had to guess, they prioritized big names and celebrities more than random people, which would generally track, following along with the general controversy surrounding the palestine issue, it’s probably the safest political bet they could make at the time.
That is prioritizing the genocide over the campaign
i don’t think this statement even makes sense in a semantic fashion, wouldn’t they stop promoting the campaign, and give like 300 billion dollars to israel instead?
they weren’t “pushing them away” the voter base was pulling away from the democratic base, if you aren’t aware of this because you don’t know any history prior to 2023, than you will be shocked to learn that the US has historically supported israel since it’s very creation. It’s literally an 80 year long history. The dems were doing nothing other than running on historical popular sentiment, which doesn’t seem to have changed significantly judging by the 75 million votes, and the additional polling that shows that support for palestine is mostly among the younger voters. (if they even vote at all) I’m also not convinced that it was a significant portion of the population to the point where you need to worry about explicitly including them. They didn’t specifically cosy up the black voter base, or hispanic voter base, they just ran on policy, and they still voted for them.
you can make that argument all you want, but at the end of the something as controversial as the israel palestine issue (which is definitionally controversial otherwise we would all be in agreement, and it wouldn’t be controversial at all.) is more than likely going to harm the voter turnout, especially among the older demographics who are more willing to support this kind of rhetoric anyway. They likely believed it was more worthwhile to target the existing, known reliable voter base as much as possible, over people who were between the ages of 20-25 and were in college.
And reminder here, they didn’t win, they knew they weren’t winning, they knew they needed more voters and they pushed people away anyway
by 2 million votes. Electorally is a different story, but that’s irrelevant, please show me these concrete figures you must be referencing demonstrating AT LEAST 2 million voters who would’ve reliably voted for kamala prior to the israel palestine issue (before kamala was even running in the first place) who wouldn’t vote for kamala, after the campaign.
I’m aware that there were like, at least 30 people in michigan who cared enough, but im pretty sure michigan went red anyway. I think there were like, 12 people in california that cared? Idk, california is weird. I literally only remember one instance of this being a concern ever, and it was with michigan voters. This really just doesn’t seem like a demographic problem to me at all.
you are literally engaging all three of your functionally capable brain cells to make this argument huh.
How do i explain this to you, in a way that you can understand.
So, there are primary effects, secondary effects, tertiary, etc, continues all the way down until you stop caring. An action like, going against 80 years of allyship and historical precedent could net you a 5% larger voter base for example.
Now there’s this funny concept where the secondary effect is that 70% of your voter base is less ok with this, so you might lose 7% of your voter base to another party instead, now you’ve gained a net -2% share of voters!
Oh, but wait. It’s more complicated than this, because the two primary candidates in this case were kamala, and trump, trump who is notoriously problematic in regards to this one issue, and kamala who has repeatedly stated that she wants to at least do something about it. Now if you’re a pro this issue supporter, if you don’t vote for kamala harris, even though her stance is moderate, not terrible, not great, but moderate. You have essentially given a direct boost to the alternate, who in this case is a great negative to the problem at hand.
Congratulations you’ve once again succeeded in making things worse! But now you get to pretend like it wasn’t your fault, wow look at that, isn’t that so cool. Crazy how you can just absolve yourself of all your wrongdoings and problems by pretending they weren’t because of you!
Oh but wait, maybe you voted third party, who would theoretically actually do something to stop this problem. OH WAIT, they’re a russian puppet, and if you voted for them, you’ve completely nullified your entire point by voting for someone who supports something opposed to what you support!
man i sure do love putting 3 minutes of thought into a problem, but you can continue living in schizo dream land where if only you circlejerked harder about whatever, people would’ve totally 100% cared, because trust me, i’m not the issue, it’s literally everybody else around me that’s the issue!
You can, so long as you acknowledge that them taking an anti Israel stance would most likely also lead to Trump due to other democrats feeling alienated, and thus, a Trump administration that will do even more genocide.
The sad truth just seems to be that not even among democrats that position is a majority. No matter what you voted for, it would most likely not have changed that. The US needs like 20-40 years of progressive change before the majority is ready to take on such positions, and the way to ensure that timeline becomes longer and longer, is by making choices that undercut even small steps there.
Don’t vote for the lesser evil, vote for the path towards that eventual US where your opinion is held by the majority.
unless voting for the lesser evil is that path that leads to that point. Because otherwise you’re stuck voting third party, which is a meme. Or not voting at all, and look where that has gotten us thus far lmao.
Been trying that for decades and it hasn’t worked.
ok great news, you can like, do political ground work, today, for free even. Just go outside and talk to people, im sure there are even organizations that will assist you and provide you material to go and do it for them. It’s not hard.
i mean, that’s one option. Too bad you don’t like, interact with people regularly or something. There’s no data or research that suggests that you can influence the opinion of people by simply talking to them.
It’s indeed a shame that the Dems regressed on that issue, and that in the current system you have no alternative choice that can actually win, but sometimes holding a line is all you can do as a single person. The propaganda that the republicans are producing is exactly designed to make sure your position never holds a majority, as with the right stimulation, most people can be made to believe that being pro-war makes you a patriot and a ‘true’ American. And they’ve been winning for a long time on that front too.
You can’t vote that propaganda away completely with the current democrats, that’s true as well. But it’s incredibly hard to resist when that propaganda is entangled and mixed in with staying informed about the government and society. Things aren’t lost, but if they were hard to impossible before, it didn’t make it any easier like this, even progressive minds can be taught to reject progressiveness, so long as you get to them early and overwhelmingly enough.
How bout the fact that the Biden/Harris admin absolutely refused under any circumstances whatsoever to do their number one job of defending the country against domestic threats and a criminal regime? …and even used notorious opposition party members are their mascots?
I didn’t say her campaign was good. But the choice was obvious. Either make things at home better while avoiding escalation around the world, or make things at home substantially worse while also escalating conflicts around the world including in Gaza.
Harris could’ve just stood there and said “I’m not Trump” and I would say the exact same thing about the idiots that couldn’t bother to vote for her.
It was. And it was also everyone else’s top priority that had any common sense. Because most of us with properly functioning brains didn’t hold their vote hostage over things they didn’t give a shit about a year ago. Also- most people saw what was coming from a mile away, and weren’t smug entitled assholes they felt no obligation to participate. They weren’t irresponsible and careless children that would just pretend to be victims alongside everyone else once the smoke clears-
Can I complain about the fact that the Biden/Harris admin prioritized continuing a genocide over beating Trump?
uh, no? These are literally two irrelevant concepts.
If you want to complain about the fact that the biden/harris admin have less than desirable stances on the israel/palestine problem, by all means do that. But i don’t see how this is relevant to anything to do with beating trump. Because the statistics literally show that 75 million people voted for kamala harris this election. to the 77 million who voted for trump. Could that specific issue push her over the edge? Maybe, maybe not. It’s impossible to know unless you do incredibly in depth study on it.
This is literally the meme of “if only it wasn’t slightly too cold for me to comfortably go on a run right now, otherwise i would totally be taking care of my physical fitness, instead i will do nothing.”
https://lemmy.ml/post/25756796?scrollToComments=true
Harris purposely ignored and pushed away parts of her base that cared about Palestine. She also refused to let a single Palestinian-American Democrat speak at the DNC.
That is prioritizing the genocide over the campaign
because it’s primarily people under the age of 25. And a very small voter demographic, maybe arabic people also, but arabic people are decidedly biased against israel for obvious reasons.
i don’t know of any incidents regarding kamala, or her team publicly refusing the ability of a Palestinian to speak, but i could be wrong. If i had to guess, they prioritized big names and celebrities more than random people, which would generally track, following along with the general controversy surrounding the palestine issue, it’s probably the safest political bet they could make at the time.
i don’t think this statement even makes sense in a semantic fashion, wouldn’t they stop promoting the campaign, and give like 300 billion dollars to israel instead?
Purposely pushing away any voters (especially parts of your base) during an election is a crazy choice if you want to win
And reminder here, they didn’t win, they knew they weren’t winning, they knew they needed more voters and they pushed people away anyway
they weren’t “pushing them away” the voter base was pulling away from the democratic base, if you aren’t aware of this because you don’t know any history prior to 2023, than you will be shocked to learn that the US has historically supported israel since it’s very creation. It’s literally an 80 year long history. The dems were doing nothing other than running on historical popular sentiment, which doesn’t seem to have changed significantly judging by the 75 million votes, and the additional polling that shows that support for palestine is mostly among the younger voters. (if they even vote at all) I’m also not convinced that it was a significant portion of the population to the point where you need to worry about explicitly including them. They didn’t specifically cosy up the black voter base, or hispanic voter base, they just ran on policy, and they still voted for them.
you can make that argument all you want, but at the end of the something as controversial as the israel palestine issue (which is definitionally controversial otherwise we would all be in agreement, and it wouldn’t be controversial at all.) is more than likely going to harm the voter turnout, especially among the older demographics who are more willing to support this kind of rhetoric anyway. They likely believed it was more worthwhile to target the existing, known reliable voter base as much as possible, over people who were between the ages of 20-25 and were in college.
by 2 million votes. Electorally is a different story, but that’s irrelevant, please show me these concrete figures you must be referencing demonstrating AT LEAST 2 million voters who would’ve reliably voted for kamala prior to the israel palestine issue (before kamala was even running in the first place) who wouldn’t vote for kamala, after the campaign.
I’m aware that there were like, at least 30 people in michigan who cared enough, but im pretty sure michigan went red anyway. I think there were like, 12 people in california that cared? Idk, california is weird. I literally only remember one instance of this being a concern ever, and it was with michigan voters. This really just doesn’t seem like a demographic problem to me at all.
Your right, the Democratic strategists knew what they were doing, they shouldn’t have tried to attract more voters
you are literally engaging all three of your functionally capable brain cells to make this argument huh.
How do i explain this to you, in a way that you can understand.
So, there are primary effects, secondary effects, tertiary, etc, continues all the way down until you stop caring. An action like, going against 80 years of allyship and historical precedent could net you a 5% larger voter base for example.
Now there’s this funny concept where the secondary effect is that 70% of your voter base is less ok with this, so you might lose 7% of your voter base to another party instead, now you’ve gained a net -2% share of voters!
Oh, but wait. It’s more complicated than this, because the two primary candidates in this case were kamala, and trump, trump who is notoriously problematic in regards to this one issue, and kamala who has repeatedly stated that she wants to at least do something about it. Now if you’re a pro this issue supporter, if you don’t vote for kamala harris, even though her stance is moderate, not terrible, not great, but moderate. You have essentially given a direct boost to the alternate, who in this case is a great negative to the problem at hand.
Congratulations you’ve once again succeeded in making things worse! But now you get to pretend like it wasn’t your fault, wow look at that, isn’t that so cool. Crazy how you can just absolve yourself of all your wrongdoings and problems by pretending they weren’t because of you!
Oh but wait, maybe you voted third party, who would theoretically actually do something to stop this problem. OH WAIT, they’re a russian puppet, and if you voted for them, you’ve completely nullified your entire point by voting for someone who supports something opposed to what you support!
man i sure do love putting 3 minutes of thought into a problem, but you can continue living in schizo dream land where if only you circlejerked harder about whatever, people would’ve totally 100% cared, because trust me, i’m not the issue, it’s literally everybody else around me that’s the issue!
I’ll never vote for someone facilitating a genocide. If those are the only options then this is an evil country that cannot be saved
You can, so long as you acknowledge that them taking an anti Israel stance would most likely also lead to Trump due to other democrats feeling alienated, and thus, a Trump administration that will do even more genocide.
The sad truth just seems to be that not even among democrats that position is a majority. No matter what you voted for, it would most likely not have changed that. The US needs like 20-40 years of progressive change before the majority is ready to take on such positions, and the way to ensure that timeline becomes longer and longer, is by making choices that undercut even small steps there.
Don’t vote for the lesser evil, vote for the path towards that eventual US where your opinion is held by the majority.
unless voting for the lesser evil is that path that leads to that point. Because otherwise you’re stuck voting third party, which is a meme. Or not voting at all, and look where that has gotten us thus far lmao.
Voting for the lesser evil has also gotten us here
yeah and driving cars gets people into fatal auto accidents, great statement.
Been trying that for decades and it hasn’t worked.
The only reason I started voting for the Dems in the first place was because they were anti-war, now they are pro-war so things have moved backwards
ok great news, you can like, do political ground work, today, for free even. Just go outside and talk to people, im sure there are even organizations that will assist you and provide you material to go and do it for them. It’s not hard.
The money is on the side of pro-war politics, this isn’t about what 1 person is capable of its a systemic problem
man i wonder how you could possibly go about deterring that mechanism, man i sure wonder.
You’re right, I’ll just become a billionaire, no prob
i mean, that’s one option. Too bad you don’t like, interact with people regularly or something. There’s no data or research that suggests that you can influence the opinion of people by simply talking to them.
It’s indeed a shame that the Dems regressed on that issue, and that in the current system you have no alternative choice that can actually win, but sometimes holding a line is all you can do as a single person. The propaganda that the republicans are producing is exactly designed to make sure your position never holds a majority, as with the right stimulation, most people can be made to believe that being pro-war makes you a patriot and a ‘true’ American. And they’ve been winning for a long time on that front too.
You can’t vote that propaganda away completely with the current democrats, that’s true as well. But it’s incredibly hard to resist when that propaganda is entangled and mixed in with staying informed about the government and society. Things aren’t lost, but if they were hard to impossible before, it didn’t make it any easier like this, even progressive minds can be taught to reject progressiveness, so long as you get to them early and overwhelmingly enough.
True, this is an evil country. USA delenda est
You could have if Trump was going to actually end the genocide instead of explicitly saying he was going to make it even worse.
How bout the fact that the Biden/Harris admin absolutely refused under any circumstances whatsoever to do their number one job of defending the country against domestic threats and a criminal regime? …and even used notorious opposition party members are their mascots?
I didn’t say her campaign was good. But the choice was obvious. Either make things at home better while avoiding escalation around the world, or make things at home substantially worse while also escalating conflicts around the world including in Gaza.
Harris could’ve just stood there and said “I’m not Trump” and I would say the exact same thing about the idiots that couldn’t bother to vote for her.
No.
Why not? Shouldn’t beating trump have been their top priority?
It was. And it was also everyone else’s top priority that had any common sense. Because most of us with properly functioning brains didn’t hold their vote hostage over things they didn’t give a shit about a year ago. Also- most people saw what was coming from a mile away, and weren’t smug entitled assholes they felt no obligation to participate. They weren’t irresponsible and careless children that would just pretend to be victims alongside everyone else once the smoke clears-
as I predicted they would.
If beating trump was their top priority why didn’t they listen to their base who were against the genocide? https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
News flash genius: EVERYONE is against genocide. You’re not part of some special grassroots movement of people that figured something out.
It’s just that there rest of us aren’t smug entitled children that have no idea how politics work.
The Dems clearly don’t know how politics work since they lost everything
Try and contain your drool when you say that next time, подставное лицо.
Everyone I disagree with is a Russian spy