If a for-profit company needs to be rescued they usually shouldn’t be rescued.
oh, I see how it is, you want poor American workers to lose their jobs, eh? now give us money fucking slave.
We could take all the theoretical bailout money and just give it to the newly unemployed workers.
They would just blow it in penny whistles and Moon pies! /S
Maybe boeing needs to die so it can be replaced with something that does a better job.
True. Airbus has had problems in the past and they fixed them without avoiding them.
Privatize the profits and socialize the losses.
Fuck Boeing and Jim Cramer, especially.
Can’t believe that hack still has a show.
I guess it’s time for them to break up the company and sell to others who can pick up the reins and rebuild. They made this bed. The shareholders have made their money for years and years at a cost of human lives as seen time and time again. The shareholders could always pay back the formerly ever increasing dividends they have reaped over the past 10 years if they want to bail out the company they own.
No more taxpayer bailouts for the ownership class.
This is one of the supposed benefits of the free market. If left alone, under normal conditions, what’s supposed to happen is that badly ran, uncompetitive firms end up showing themselves the door, making room for new market competitors who may not be so badly managed. Don’t fucking save them, especially don’t advocate for saving them if you claim to love free markets.
The problem with free markets is they are incredibly unstable and create booms and busts and people don’t like this so we get the worst of all worlds which is unfettered capitalism and no competition or failure weeding out poorly managed companies. Maybe free markets are just a shitty ideal?
Maybe free markets are just a shitty ideal?
Yes. The answer to that question is yes. Free market capitalism encourages cutthroat competition in which the only factor in any decision-making process is maximizing profits. Safety isn’t a factor. Employee well-being isn’t a factor. National security isn’t a factor. The economy at large isn’t a factor. Long term investments aren’t even a factor. Line go up this quarter equals good quarter. Regulations ensure mandatory minimums for societal prosperity.
Until corporations realise they can cheat and change the game by bribing politicians to tip the scales in their favour.
Business exists only for one thing; exploiting systems, even if that means meta-exploitation, since that’s the highest form of exploitation, and the inevitable endgame.
free markets are a shitty idea, but ive never seen one in real life before.
I think America would actually benefit from switching to a free market economy, instead of our current bullshit where our politicans are too spineless to tell companies like Boeing “sucks to suck” when they ask for yet another handout instead of doing any real work
Agreed, but the big players have their hands tied up in Congress and the military so much that it’s not gonna happen.
Then they should be nationalized, because they’ve already got the benefits, but none of the downsides, while the public get none of the benefits, and all of the downsides… At this point “too big to fail” are essentially critical government infrastructure setup by wealthy criminals to steal directly from tax payers.
Nationalizing industries? In America? We don’t do that here, friend. We give corporations massive bailouts and forgive all felonies.
I mean the US came shocking close after the Penn Central collapse, even operating Conrail for several years as a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Federal Government for several years
I would bring back Conrail immediately.
I think you could make the argument it is already nationalized if the government bails them out to protect it’s military industry sector.
That’s actually really sad to think about.
we dont have a free market. We have what i can only describe as Inverse Socialism
its socialism for the wealthy and the corporations, and “free market” for everyone else
this is part of the reason why theft of property from the rich, or violence against them, is not morally wrong.
They get tax breaks that we all pay for, and they influence policies that help themselves while killing us.
You cant steal what you already paid for, and its not murder when its self defense
It is, afaik, the literal, actual, unironic definition of the fascist economic model. Basically, the public sector only really exists in the form of “private” companies that are tightly coupled to the government.
thats what they taught us about communist Russia when i was in highschool
Our economics class learned that their “public” sector was a mix of private companies acting as both private citizens AND government agencies.
And my teacher was like “imagine if all the roads and utilities and infrastructure for the country was run by private, FOR PROFIT businesses that benefit from laws written for citizens, AND from laws written for corporations but are not bound by either”
20 years later i realize thats how its been here the whole time
With everything I know about Jim Cramer, that means Boeing is doing great and I should probably invest in it now
Can’t wait to see another multi-billion dollar corporation get bailed out while I still don’t have health insurance, and I’m still paying off credit card debt from during the Pandemic when the government gave people a measly $2400 over two years but handed out PPP loans and forgiveness to anyone that asked.
Fuck this country makes me ashamed to be a veteran.
there’s a long, proud tradition in this country of screwing over veterans starting in 1776
Don’t believe the homeless…many homeless people are not veterans. Many were just regular citizens like you and I who worked their asses off every day but then got screwed and into the streets.
veterans are a sizeable portion of the homeless, most American service men/women come from extremely poor backgrounds, they are the workers.
there is a reason it’s called a poverty draft.
learn some solidarity.
I was being sarcastic. However you’re right. At least back in Sandy San Diego, a bunch of the homeless people I got to meet were of different backgrounds. Some were migrants, many were veterans but I would say more than 50% were people down on their luck. I used to walk by St Vicents on my way to school. Many of them were on drugs. Over the years the population changes a lot though.
being honest here, “down on their luck” is already a fucking joke. these people arn’t poor because they diden’t have enough luck, they are poor because the system they live in wants them to be poor, poverty and homelessness isn’t a symptom, it’s a feature.
Yeah, basically. You know, I don’t think there is an evil mastermind behind any of it. We just basically made up a system that causes homelessness, but because it doesn’t affect us, then we do nothing to fix it. Later on, when we are affected in old age or when we loose our home, we simply don’t have a voice to say anything about it. So we do nothing.
the funny thing about that, the rich have class consciousness, they know from rational self-interest what to do
If you have not filed for VA compensation, you need to. If you want some help with the process let me know, I don’t feel like typing out a book.
Structured bankruptcy is not the cataclysmic event CEOs and major shareholders want you to believe.
I know a startup that declared bankruptcy and “sold” to another organization… owned by the startup holders… to avoid paying debt.
It’s all a game to take more money out of taxpayers.
Yeah that’s called phoenixing and is very illegal.
lol so is insider trading. Still happens all the time.
I’m not advocating for doing illegal things, but I will say that way more people and organizations are doing it and getting away with it than are caught.
Nationalise it if it’s too big to fail but can no longer operate as a public company.
Communism! Muh free market!
Alright, then the market is free to let Boeing fail
Have to laugh while dying a little inside when ‘free market’ people cry about banks, insurance companies, real estate, and other mega corps ‘needing’ bailouts.
Isn’t that the essence of the free market? If companies suck shit, they die. The American people need a fucking bailout right now before another international corporation.
Exactly. Capitalists hate capitalism, because they have to compete or cheat or lose. They’d much prefer an un-free market, where they win even if they lose.
Look I’m fine if the govt wants to say a particular corporation is too big to fail. But trying to let that company remain private is not how too big to fail works. If you want a bailout, the govt owns your company, and the govt is obliged to maintain ownership for as long as it’s deemed too big to fail…e.g. critical to national interests.
Personally I think all publicly traded companies should be partly owned by the people… Like sure you can have an IPO, and still make a zillion dollars… But society automatically owns a large enough share that you have to check with us before doing anything drastic
That’s called taxes.
That’s why the government owns us.
To big to fail should mean splitting up the company. At the very least when bailed out. Intresstingly the US actually made a profit bailing out banks in the 2008 crisis.
If I remember it correctly, that “profit” was nominal, i.e. without including the devaluation of that money due to Inflation, much less doing the proper investment accounting (as the Finance types do) were profit is a yield above a risk free investment (which, curiously, is normally Treasuries) and if it’s below that it’s not a good investment and beyond this the risk of losing your money also determines if the yield is worth.
Pretty much by definition the yield wasn’t worth it in helping the banks at the interest rate the Government got, as why nobody else was willing to lend them the money at that interest rate.
Capitalists: Under capitalism inefficient companies fail, and this is good.
Also capitalists: Save Boeing!!!11oneone
Boeing isn’t the best example of a capitalist enterprise. It’s too big to fail. The US government is too dependent on it and the country depends on Boeing strategically.
Boeing is basically a pseudo-state corporation.
It’s too big to fail.
Then FTC has some work to do. Or nationalize.
What would the FTC do? Boeing builds aircraft for the US military. Breaking up the company or allowing it to fail jeopardizes the US’s strategic interests.
Nationalization is an option but the political climate in the US is extremely hostile to that option. Instead what I expect will happen is a massive bailout and a forced reorganization of management to fix all the issues. The government will dictate the changes the company needs to make but otherwise will remain hands off. This is how the US has done these things in the past.
What would the FTC do?
Break it up. So it won’t be “too big”.
Breaking up the company or allowing it to fail jeopardizes the US’s strategic interests.
Ah. So you see the problem with capitalism.
The government will dictate the changes the company needs to make
And what will happen if nothing changes? Another bailout?
Ah. So you see the problem with capitalism.
It’s a double-edged sword. Boeing developed these aircraft. They’ve given the US the military advantage they’ve enjoyed since the Second World War.
Boeing developed the aircraft with taxpayer money, they build the aircraft with taxpayer money, and then they get a ton of money as profits from our taxpayer money, and lastly we bail them out with our taxpayer money.
*Engieneers hired by Boeing
*Engieneers hired by Boeing
Locally you can usually find places that help low-income people learn to budget their money.
here’s some bootstraps mate, good luck!
also get fucked. what needs to be saved is the people from your utter disregard for human life.
you should use the last bit of your money to fly your CEO and entire management on one of your shitty planes and watch them fly through whatever fucking hole inevitably opens up.
You mean like a dimensional portal?
no, like a hole in the side of a plane.
The only reason i would keep them alive is to not cost all the shopfloor their jobs. Can all the executives though
Unfortunately, as someone screwed over by the Recession, I can assure you that that’s not how it works. The executives get bonuses that they can use to buy up investments for cheap and everyone else gets pink slips.
