A response time of several minutes for grid balancing is on par with large scale hydropower, and often quicker than combined cycle plants. The whole reason why we put all our major power plants together into an electrical grid is to cause any change in demand or supply to take a lot of time to have an impact.
Nuclear can generate in the evening during peak demand and at night without needing enough batteries to last supply the entire grid for 12 to 18 hours and unlike wind isn’t heavily location dependent.
I see your points but they don’t outdo the downsides.
Also you speak of batterys as in chemical ones, there are also ways to store energy in heat or physically (flywheel storage for example)
Shure it can generate a baseload for long time, but its absolutely not able to serve demand peaks or lows in ways the frequency stays stable
Also the other downsides are still a thing, wind and solar work almost everywhere when its done correctly and you don’t need direct sunlight for solar either. Just light in general.
There are also various types of hydro energy and geothermal is also possible in many places.
Nuclear is Dirty, takes to long and has a waste problem. Yes, its definitely better than coal but we shouldn’t go from Bubonic Plague to Measles when we could go from Bubonic Plague to the Flu.
Flywheel storage is not a serious solution for anything but adding inertia to the grid, where it is sometimes brought up as an expensive solution to the fact that unlike hydro, geothermal, coal, oil, combined cycle, and yes nuclear, solar and wind have no intera because unlike all the previously mentioned modes of generation they have no flywheel built in.
If energy stoage is a problem for nuclear, than it is literally at least a hundred times larger one for solar. You might need to store a tiny inbalance for nuclear, you need to store the entire grid capacity for the entire night with solar. It also ignores that you can run an entire power grid on nuclear and hydro, we know because entire nations have been actually doing it since the seventies.
Wind absolutely cannot be built anywhere at grid scale. There are relatively few areas where it is consistent enough to generate a worthwhile output. Solar will output with indirect lighting or when cloudy, but only at a third to a quarter of its direct sunlight output, and it does require both massive tracks of land and along with wind has massive trouble with nimbys blocking new development and the necessary scale up in tranmision lines.
This is not to say that solar and wind are unworkable obviously, just that they are nither easy nor without major downsides. This is why a well designed grid has a diverse set of sources and doesn’t just rely on uncontrollable sources like solar and wind. Nuclear does a very good job of providing consistent green energy on calm nights and can be built just about anywhere without requiring the large open land of solar or the strong constant breeze of wind.
Waste really isn’t a serious concern. The vast majority is low level stuff like used clean suits and gloves that are only a problem for decades, and you can glassify or recycle the high level stuff. We just often don’t bother because compared to the massive open pits of toxic chemical waste that will be just as deadly in a trillion years as it is today, and which are created by producing everything from your phone and laptop to solar panels, there just really isn’t enough of it to cause the problems thouse other types of toxic waste do.
Flywheel storage is not a serious solution for anything by adding inertia to the grid, where it is sometimes brought up as an expensive solution to the fact that unlike hydro, geothermal, coal, oil, combined cycle, and yes nuclear, solar and wind have no intera because unlike all the previously mentioned modes of generation they have no flywheel built in.
If energy stoage is a problem for nuclear, than it is literally at least a hundred times larger one for solar. You might need to store a tiny inbalance for nuclear, you need to store the entire grid capacity for the entire night with solar. It also ignores that you can run an entire power grid on nuclear and hydro, we know because entire nations have been actually doing it since the seventies.
Citation needed, what country runs just on nuclear? (hydro isn’t possible everywhere and has significant issues and environmental problems) also nobody said to just build solar.
Wind absolutely cannot be built anywhere at grid scale. There are relatively few areas where it is consistent enough to generate a worthwhile output. Solar will output with indirect lighting or when cloudy, but only at a third to a quarter of its direct sunlight output, and it does require both massive tracks of land and along with wind has massive trouble with nimbys blocking new development and the necessary scale up in tranmision lines.
Thats also not correct, the newest generation of wind turbines are several hound meters high and have gigantic wings, they catch onto the winds high up that blow constantly (with variety in power, but not that much) the efficiency of these turbines is also enormous. The new generation that is currently built in Germany gets 1-2 GW output regular. The wind they leach onto also blows everywhere in the world, shure the efficiency may be different, but it works, you just need to build some more in some areas.
This is not to say that solar and wind are unworkable obviously, just that they are nither easy nor without major downsides. This is why a well designed grid has a diverse set of sources and doesn’t just rely on uncontrollable sources like solar and wind. Nuclear does a very good job of providing consistent green energy on calm nights and can be built just about anywhere without requiring the large open land of solar or the strong constant breeze of wind.
No, nuclear isn’t going to work in the long run, a reactor takes 10 years to build and has all the above mentioned downsides.
Waste really isn’t a serious concern. The vast majority is low level stuff like used clean suits and gloves that are only a problem for decades, and you can glassify or recycle the high level stuff. We just often don’t bother because compared to the massive open pits of toxic chemical waste that will be just as deadly in a trillion years as it is today, and which are created by producing everything from your phone and laptop to solar panels, there just really isn’t enough of it to cause the problems thouse other types of toxic waste do.
Thats just not true at all. Yes we also have other toxic waste, but that stuff isn’t radioactive as well, nuclear waste also lasts way longer as most dangerous chemicals we made do decompose over time, nuclear is, in human standards, basically ethereal. And in normal countries that stuff isn’t just thrown into a pit… But thats a different story.
I agree that the waste problem isn’t enormous like some other problems, but its a problem that is unsolved in most places. France just buries all nuclear waste in piles wich is obviously not good for many reasons, Germany doesn’t have a place to store it at all, its just left in the shut down, decommissioned plants until some place is found. The big problem is that the storage needs to never get wet because the water would be radioactive and toxic. And most others don’t have a safe place either.
The flywheel design you linked was exactly what I was talking about. A system designed purely to add inertia to the grid, not ment for energy storage.
France was the nation alluded to that has run largely on nuclear for nearly half a century now.
I know what the newest generation of wind trubines are capable of, indeed I am going to local government meetings to try and keep Nimbys from blocking such a large scale development in my area. Thouse very consistent winds newer turbines are reliant on are only present in certain areas, which is why large projects have to be sited in thouse specific areas. You can’t just put a row of turbines wherever demand is and expect it to work.
Most toxic chemical waste by volume are things like heavy metals and such that will never, ever, break down. They are far more deadly to humans and animals than high level radioactive waste, which after a few centuries is more dangerous because of its toxicity than because of its radioactivity. Because of the danger and difficulty in safely storing such waste forever, production has also been largely outsourced to nations in Southeast Asia and Africa where environmental enforcement is corrupt and ineffectual if foreign lobbying can’t keep it from being written at all.
The waste produced is often stored in open unlined ponds which may at best and if the company went above and beyond have a clay or plastic liner to limit ingress into the local water table. This method has actually killed people, indeed it kills a lot of people every year, and will continue to pose a health hazard to the drinking water even if these nations take on the often billions of dollars per site in restoration and cleanup, which mostly involves moving this waste to a better designed enclosed pit like are used in richer nations because again, this waste will never be safe and can kill people in a million years just as easily as it does today.
Radioactive waste is well known among the public, but its far from the most dangerous kind of waste we make.
A response time of several minutes for grid balancing is on par with large scale hydropower, and often quicker than combined cycle plants. The whole reason why we put all our major power plants together into an electrical grid is to cause any change in demand or supply to take a lot of time to have an impact.
Nuclear can generate in the evening during peak demand and at night without needing enough batteries to last supply the entire grid for 12 to 18 hours and unlike wind isn’t heavily location dependent.
I see your points but they don’t outdo the downsides.
Also you speak of batterys as in chemical ones, there are also ways to store energy in heat or physically (flywheel storage for example)
Shure it can generate a baseload for long time, but its absolutely not able to serve demand peaks or lows in ways the frequency stays stable
Also the other downsides are still a thing, wind and solar work almost everywhere when its done correctly and you don’t need direct sunlight for solar either. Just light in general.
There are also various types of hydro energy and geothermal is also possible in many places.
Nuclear is Dirty, takes to long and has a waste problem. Yes, its definitely better than coal but we shouldn’t go from Bubonic Plague to Measles when we could go from Bubonic Plague to the Flu.
Flywheel storage is not a serious solution for anything but adding inertia to the grid, where it is sometimes brought up as an expensive solution to the fact that unlike hydro, geothermal, coal, oil, combined cycle, and yes nuclear, solar and wind have no intera because unlike all the previously mentioned modes of generation they have no flywheel built in.
If energy stoage is a problem for nuclear, than it is literally at least a hundred times larger one for solar. You might need to store a tiny inbalance for nuclear, you need to store the entire grid capacity for the entire night with solar. It also ignores that you can run an entire power grid on nuclear and hydro, we know because entire nations have been actually doing it since the seventies.
Wind absolutely cannot be built anywhere at grid scale. There are relatively few areas where it is consistent enough to generate a worthwhile output. Solar will output with indirect lighting or when cloudy, but only at a third to a quarter of its direct sunlight output, and it does require both massive tracks of land and along with wind has massive trouble with nimbys blocking new development and the necessary scale up in tranmision lines.
This is not to say that solar and wind are unworkable obviously, just that they are nither easy nor without major downsides. This is why a well designed grid has a diverse set of sources and doesn’t just rely on uncontrollable sources like solar and wind. Nuclear does a very good job of providing consistent green energy on calm nights and can be built just about anywhere without requiring the large open land of solar or the strong constant breeze of wind.
Waste really isn’t a serious concern. The vast majority is low level stuff like used clean suits and gloves that are only a problem for decades, and you can glassify or recycle the high level stuff. We just often don’t bother because compared to the massive open pits of toxic chemical waste that will be just as deadly in a trillion years as it is today, and which are created by producing everything from your phone and laptop to solar panels, there just really isn’t enough of it to cause the problems thouse other types of toxic waste do.
You should look into it a little more, there are many approaches to storing loads of energy this is one of them. https://www.en-former.com/en/tu-dresden-builds-huge-flywheel-storage-system-for-wind-turbines/
Citation needed, what country runs just on nuclear? (hydro isn’t possible everywhere and has significant issues and environmental problems) also nobody said to just build solar.
Thats also not correct, the newest generation of wind turbines are several hound meters high and have gigantic wings, they catch onto the winds high up that blow constantly (with variety in power, but not that much) the efficiency of these turbines is also enormous. The new generation that is currently built in Germany gets 1-2 GW output regular. The wind they leach onto also blows everywhere in the world, shure the efficiency may be different, but it works, you just need to build some more in some areas.
No, nuclear isn’t going to work in the long run, a reactor takes 10 years to build and has all the above mentioned downsides.
Thats just not true at all. Yes we also have other toxic waste, but that stuff isn’t radioactive as well, nuclear waste also lasts way longer as most dangerous chemicals we made do decompose over time, nuclear is, in human standards, basically ethereal. And in normal countries that stuff isn’t just thrown into a pit… But thats a different story.
I agree that the waste problem isn’t enormous like some other problems, but its a problem that is unsolved in most places. France just buries all nuclear waste in piles wich is obviously not good for many reasons, Germany doesn’t have a place to store it at all, its just left in the shut down, decommissioned plants until some place is found. The big problem is that the storage needs to never get wet because the water would be radioactive and toxic. And most others don’t have a safe place either.
The flywheel design you linked was exactly what I was talking about. A system designed purely to add inertia to the grid, not ment for energy storage.
France was the nation alluded to that has run largely on nuclear for nearly half a century now.
I know what the newest generation of wind trubines are capable of, indeed I am going to local government meetings to try and keep Nimbys from blocking such a large scale development in my area. Thouse very consistent winds newer turbines are reliant on are only present in certain areas, which is why large projects have to be sited in thouse specific areas. You can’t just put a row of turbines wherever demand is and expect it to work.
Most toxic chemical waste by volume are things like heavy metals and such that will never, ever, break down. They are far more deadly to humans and animals than high level radioactive waste, which after a few centuries is more dangerous because of its toxicity than because of its radioactivity. Because of the danger and difficulty in safely storing such waste forever, production has also been largely outsourced to nations in Southeast Asia and Africa where environmental enforcement is corrupt and ineffectual if foreign lobbying can’t keep it from being written at all.
The waste produced is often stored in open unlined ponds which may at best and if the company went above and beyond have a clay or plastic liner to limit ingress into the local water table. This method has actually killed people, indeed it kills a lot of people every year, and will continue to pose a health hazard to the drinking water even if these nations take on the often billions of dollars per site in restoration and cleanup, which mostly involves moving this waste to a better designed enclosed pit like are used in richer nations because again, this waste will never be safe and can kill people in a million years just as easily as it does today.
Radioactive waste is well known among the public, but its far from the most dangerous kind of waste we make.