- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Do you miss phones with replaceable batteries? By 2027, you won’t anymore because, by law, almost every smartphone will have them again.
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One of my phones battery became swollen and hated not being able to change it without removing the adhesive stuck backing, camera, wireless charging cable, brackets preventing battery cable to be removed normally, battery being adhesive stuck to the battery slot. I hope all phones go back to removable batteries.
Its NOT just smartphones
Its damn near everything!
Electric cars, other electronics etc
Some are just not “user replacable” (such as a cars batteries)
this law will change all iPhones. It will also change all tablets, laptops, EVs, e-bikes, and anything else with a rechargeable battery
Headphones, gaming mice, gaminh controllers. Its gonna be great
The big one at the moment - at least in the UK and IMHO - is disposable vapes. I see them everywhere, just tossed on the ground or at the side of the road. The reason I see them is because of their flashing blue LEDs still running, meaning there’s at least a working battery and support circuitry in there. It’s disgusting that something like that is tolerated. I’m hopeful that the requirement to have user-replacable batteries will eliminate them by making them uneconomical compared to standard vapes.
I don’t understand why disposable vapes are even legal at all. I mean we banned friggin’ plastic straws but this thing is fine?! Who even came up with such a terrible product in current times?
The EU by going after the self-mixing market. Bullshit like allowing duties on liquid that doesn’t even contain nicotine so you end up paying through your nose for flavoured glycerine/propylene glycol mix. Limiting nicotine-containing liquids to 20mg/ml max, and 10ml bottles at that, while there were never any issues with what was legal here (Germany) under ordinary toxic substance laws (without being a chemist): 50mg/ml in any size you bloody want (usually 100ml because it degrades once you open it).
Before those laws the market was largely modular systems, tank and mod separate, plenty of replaceable batteries, with all that bullshit added on vaping sensibly became so expensive that people went “meh, can just as well use a pre-built”.
The UK actually were the sensible ones in that area, but I guess the market shift reached them by sheer force of Chinese production capacity.
Yurop did it again.
I’m looking to upgrade my iPhone 11 for no reason other than the battery life is starting to bug me. None of the features released since the 11 hold any interest for me, I literally just want more battery life. Looks like that’ll cost me about $1000 if I want to stay with iOS. Absolutely insane.
Although I am not experienced with iPhone prices, shouldn’t a non-official replacement cost somewhere between $30 and $50? I tend to repair my Android phone batteries every 2-3 years at home, and alongside light software mods they become impressively more usable in the long run.
Just hit up an apple store bud - they’ll swap a new battery for like $89. I had the battery replaced on my 11 a few months ago. Took like 20 minutes.
You know you can get the battery replaced, right? Not as cheap as buying a replacement yourself, but not that much compared to a 1000$ phone.
I’d also say an $89 battery replacement is pretty much the cheapest option (barring aftermarket batteries), especially if you don’t care about the developments in the latest phones.
Wonder how waterproofing will hold up
Depends on how important it is to customers. Waterproofing was always just an excuse to seal the case and make repairs harder, and wasn’t a feature that the market demanded. We always had waterproof phones for people who needed them. You can seal a battery compartment to IP68 with a bit of effort, and IP44 is essentially what you need to put it in your pocket anyway.
I think all phones should be waterproof to some degree
Would you pay extra for waterproofing? If so how much?
I think all phone lines should have a waterproof option that doesn’t have a an easy to remove battery. That way consumers are given the choice at the time of purchase, and the people that want waterproofing are the only ones affected by the repairability tradeoff.
The Samsung S5 has an IP67 rating and the battery on that was easy to replace.
If you drop either phone they are probably just as likely to be compromised.
I could see a latch that you need the sim ejector to open. Something that still very secure, but possible for an user user to replace with out the need of a freaking heat gun. While still keeping the design.
Pretty nice, if you know how to do it.
For example, the Nikon AW130 (ok, a camera not a phone) is rated for 30 meters deep and it is rather easy to change the battery.
Producers got away with going to non-replaceable batteries because “most” people replace their phone before the battery wears out. Only a portion of consumers have a problem with it.
I’m sure there’s a few of us that can comfortably get six years off a phone. In fact the phone I’m currently using is coming up on three years. I could probably get another three years out of it, but I’m going to have to replace it soon because of battery wear.
Non-replaceable batteries are bad for the consumer and bad for the environment. It forces obsolescence putting more financial strain on consumers and increases environmental impact with higher production and waste.
A phone replaced before three years could be sold second hand with a battery replacement. Otherwise consumers could keep a phone twice as long. So they’re basically doubling the rate of production and waste to squeeze as much money as possible out of the consumer. Then there’s zero regard for the environment. But you know that’s typical of how corporations do business, rape the Earth, screw the consumer. We have to keep a leash on these guys.
You are right. My iPhone XR is around 4 or 5 years old, and now I need to charge it in the afternoon if I have used it during work to spend some time. I guess that in a year I’ll have to replace it because the battery will last even less.
While I do agree that we need more modular phones, laptops, etc. having a replaceable battery would prevent phones to be fully water proof.
But I do agree with you, I have a 2-year old phone and I already experience the battery degradation. I would most likely use this phone for another year, max two, but then would be pissed by how often I need to charge it and start looking into purchasing a new one.
Planned obsolescence is definitely a thing that enriches corporations
There are so many ways you can waterproof a phone and have a user replaceable battery and still keep it thin and sleek. But that doesn’t sell a new iPhone to someone every 2 years. It’s why anytime Apple, or any company like them, spouts off about how green they are, I know they’re full of shit. They intentionally cause so much waste it’s insane.
The Galaxy S5 active is evidence that you’re just wrong. Classic removable battery but still IP67.
I don’t think an actual waterproof phone even exists. They’re water resistant.
My Samsung Galaxy XCover 6Pro has a removable battery (and a headphone jack) and it’s ip68 rated. You wouldn’t be able to tell from the outside that the back cover comes off.
Remember that consumers expect certain things from smartphones nowadays, which will mean that OEMs can’t just go back to the old way of doing things. An IP68 rating would be very difficult to obtain while still offering a premium-feeling device with an easily replaceable battery, for example. These are hurdles OEMs will need to get over to be in compliance.
this is straight-up BS. there were many phones with ip68 and user-replacable batteries back when sealing the battery in a phone was frowned upon. not all but many.
The term “premium-feeling” does a lot of heavy lifting in that paragraph, one might almost say that it’s a bit subjective.
It’s true though. I’ve become very accustomed to the premium experience of being forced to use premium apps and services that don’t work half the time in a very premium manner.
I think it would be pretty premium if I could have a spare battery on the charger for a quick swap rather than relying on a cable to charge my phone.
Move over 2010. Who uses a cable?
I do? And most people I know?
What they really mean is “very slightly thinner than the previous generation or current rival because we think that’s a super marketable thing still even though we’ve reached the practical limit where it no longer makes sense to go thinner.”
Meanwhile the phone can’t lie flat on its back because the camera protrudes.
Solution: add phonecase! Or just have better (and slightly bigger) internals to make backside level…
I have a two-way radio which floats in water and has a replaceable battery. It’s just excuses. However I do believe they got rid of replaceable batteries to save on space and thickness of the devices.
I think you’re right. They then quickly learned that it’s in their best interest to have a sealed system. Makes it cheaper to obtain higher IP ratings. Sells more devices. It obviously did nothing that hurt sales. Samsung is making an IP68 rated device with replaceable battery and still takes SD cards right now. It’s only $600 to boot making it handedly cheaper than flagships. So why isn’t it what everyone’s pointing at in these threads? Cause the majority of people, even in these very threads, aren’t buying it. These are not the factors that decided buying a phone. Otherwise removable batteries, SD cards and 3.5mm jacks would still be ubiquitous, but here we are.
Thickness is the only concern I have. I’d love to be able to replace the battery in my iPhone safely and easily, but I don’t really want to give up having a phone that’s less than 10mm thick.
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And it had completely different innards and battery capacities. Just grabbing that old battery and putting it in a new phone would seriously limit the runtime on a single charge. Which is kinda the point, I really hope we don’t trade replaceable batteries for the need to recharge twice a day or switch batteries to even make it the whole day. Or have a noticeable bulkier phone that won’t fit as comfortably in my pocket. Or that it may not survive the rain shower I got surprised by because they skimped on the water proofing.
The main factor to consider in making an ultrathin phone in 2023 has nothing to do with the battery. It’s the requirement for a certain level of build quality to be suitable for end consumers. At some point we just need to develop new materials, because we can’t make it any more ultrathin without it also becoming ultrafragile using the materials available.
It hasn’t really been a focus since we realised back around the iPhone 5 that making these sweeping compromises for thinness was yielding diminishing returns and causing other problems. Today that’s still the thinnest mainline iPhone, only the SE and 12 Mini are thinner. 13 mini is thicker, and there is no 14 mini.
Ergonomics matter too. At this point going thinner is purely a marketing exercise rather than a practical improvement of any kind. If they were able to businesses would be making them so thin you can’t hold them without risking a paper-cut so long as that allowed them to convince people that meant it was better than their current, designed for human hands, smartphone. Same thing with size. Personally I prefer a larger display and am willing to accept slightly worse ergonomics for it but even with more or less average sized hands I definitely find phones with 6 inch or under screens much more comfortable in the hand than the more typical sizes today and I know plenty of people with smaller than average hands (ie, half of the population) who really hate holding modern gigantic phones (and so often have held off on upgrading to a new model until I’ve steered them to something the same size as their old one.)
Yeah, I scuba dive and have multiple pieces of equipment with replacable batteries that are good down to 500+ ft. Not only do some of them get opened frequently, and without replacing seals or anything, but they’re also all way cheaper than my phone! Anyone who says you can’t easily meet an IP68 rating on a phone with replacement batteries is full of shit.
Do those have the same size and weight requirements a phone has? This isn’t about “can this be done”, it is a question about “which compromises do we have to accept to make this happen”.
However, there is an exemption for high-performing and durable batteries until 2027. This means devices with high quality batteries that retain over 80% of their capacity after 1000 charge cycles do not need to comply with the removable battery requirement until 2027.
So premium phones like the iPhone would be exempt.
I don’t think you said anything differently? The article said ALL batteries must comply by 2027. You appeared to say high performing batteries don’t have to follow the law until 2027. Both of these statements, the original post and your revision, are true – all phones, including high performing batteries, must comply in the EU by 2027.
It’s not so much the batteries for me but the USB C port that has been my main issue and that damn humidity/water sensor that thinks that I’ve dipped my phone in water when I haven’t
It’s not a Samsung device is it? Their sensors seem to be super sensitive. Meanwhile my pixel has been used in the shower and not said a word…
It actually is! Second time I’m having the subboard replaced. 3rd time I can request a new phone or a replacement by law. Still not ok for a flagship phone by such a large manufacturer
Try cleaning it. I used to have the same issue, and had to get the subboard replaced multiple times too, until I realized that mechanically cleaning it with something really thin works as well. Felt really dumb after finding out lol. The pocket lint can absorb moisture and then the sensor doesn’t work properly.
That’s part of the problem I have with this. Most electronics life cycle is gone before or around the time the battery is gone. Only people that abuse the batteries by over charging / full draining typically benefit from replacement batteries. -And this just mostly needs awareness.
The vast majority of batteries operated devices are stuff that in its use is going to be “abused”. The hell is the harm in letting people switch out a fucking battery if that’s the issue. Companies won’t let people switch batteries out so they are being made. Apple have been fighting tooth and nail over repair shops
You use Apple? lol.
Uhhh no I was just using them as an example of a company that is really against customer repairs
They fucking brick stuff that’s repaired.
* in Europe
Tim Cook can suck a fat one.
Oftentimes EU device laws affect other markets because it’s easier to send the same device everywhere than to design and produce a separate one just for Europe.
Yeah I don’t see Apple paying for wildly different phone designs for different markets. But I have no doubts they’ll find some new way to make their phones worthless after 2 or so years.
Updates. That’s all you need to know. They’ve already be caught with the whole slow phone after updates to make you buy a new phone.
I used to say that- but, they did actually have an argument for that- consistent battery life in exchange for lower performance. They thought users would prefer lowering performance of the phone so the battery still lasts just as long- and honestly I don’t think they’re that wrong. 95% of the time as long as it’s usuable I don’t care about the performance of my phone- but I do care about battery life.
He’d probably just enjoy it.
This is the best news I’ve read in a while. Hopefully the US (or at least Cali) jump on board as well.
Seeing as our (Cali) CCPA is about as strict (if not moreso) than the GDPR it’s not a longshot that they might.
I had an S3 for ages because you could get a replacement battery for like $12. Upgraded to an S10, can no longer swap the battery. Biding my time.
I hate this forced upgrade/payment model and how phones seemed to double in cost almost overnight.
They’re even trying to get sneakier with the contracts. 3 years now to payoff your device, instead of 2, but the payment is the same. Absolutely bonkers.
Wherever possible buy outright, it is always cheaper. If needed, get a 0% interest credit card and use that to buy it outright. Do not fall into their trap of paying hundreds more for convenience and interest, all while never actually owning the device.
I absolutely loathe the EU and it’s institutions, but every once in a while a pro consumer standardization is a good coming out of them.
Loathe is a strong word. Why? Honestly curious.
Loathe is a strong word. Why? Honestly curious.
EU is a a wonderland for anybody who subscribes to liberalism and American led world order and hell for anybody else and prison for those who try to deviate form it even a little. EU never became a another pole in the world, it just became a American vassal management system and enemy of the actual living Europe. It empowers nameless bureaucrats and is fundamentally anti-democracy and pro-global oligarchy, and at best basically has made a vassal of every small to medium sized nation in EU to Germany and France, countries like Greece being at the bottom, in permanent debt and austerity hell. I could extend this list for days.
So if I understand you correctly, based on your reply, it’s a liberal versus conservatism thing?
it’s a liberal versus conservatism thing?
It’s about that if you don’t see the base level or best possible human existence for all as inherently liberal and especially as western liberal democracy, neoliberalism and pro oligarchy. If one wants something else, then they are out of luck and caged and oppressed in the EU, otherwise one is free in the system. If you can’t see anything beside liberalism and conservatism, then sure. Then i guess I do represent conservatism if it’s that binary choice to you, not that I personally subscribe to any wider concept called “conservatism”.
“Then i guess I do represent conservatism if it’s that binary choice to you,”
Oh I definitely do not think it’s a binary choice, but the way you phrase it I was wondering if you think of it as a binary choice, hence my question to you.
It’s been my experience that liberals are more open-minded and less binary towards conservatives (“as long as they’re not hurting anybody let them do what they want”) than conservatives are towards liberals (“there’s only one way to God and I know the path so you must follow my way”). A way over simplification, but it tends to make the point.
Just one person’s anecdotal opinion, but still, thats what my life experiences have shown me.
Good. I also read appliances (like your electric toothbrush or headphones) will also have to follow this guidance. This should make it easier to repair and recycle electronics.
My toothbrush uses AA for just that reason.
Shame this can’t happen for memory and storage.
also for headphone jacks in the future too…
Maybe Framework can solve that riddle one day. I know there was an attempt some time ago by another startup.
