Don’t get me wrong. I love Linux and FOSS. I have been using and installing distros on my own since I was 12. Now that I’m working in tech-related positions, after the Reddit migration happened, etc. I recovered my interest in all the Linux environment. I use Ubuntu as my main operating system in my Desktop, but I always end up feeling very limited. There’s always software I can’t use properly (and not just Windows stuff), some stuff badly configured with weird error messages… last time I was not able to even use the apt command. Sometimes I lack time and energy for troubleshooting and sometimes I just fail at it.

I usually end up in need of redoing a fresh install until it breaks up again. Maybe Linux is not good for beginners working full time? Maybe we should do something like that Cisco course that teaches you the basic commands?

  • PhillyCodeHound@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    It’s the same way Mastodon and the Fediverse is so damn frustrating to many people. They don’t want to have to think and just want shit to work.

    • Cypher@lemmy.world
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      This is oft repeated but is short sighted, it is NOT that people do not want to think, it is that they don’t have the time and energy to constantly fight their devices to perform simple tasks.

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        That’s exactly why I love Linux and hate Windows. Try something simple in Windows like setting custom keyboard shortcuts… insanely frustrating. I’m not sure you can even do it without 3rd party apps, but in Linux I can do it in 10 seconds.

        • Cypher@lemmy.world
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          On the flip side try to get Linux to play back audio at above 48,000 Hz without breaking absolutely everything that isn’t already at the desired sample rate.

          In Windows it is 5 clicks.

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            The few times a have some minor issue on linux, it is probably audio related or related to working with multiple different screens with different refresh rates, resolutions, etc, so you probably have a point.

            However, I did have various issues with audio and multiple screens on windows as well, I would say even more frequently. However, on windows those issues were generally resolved after a restart, on linux I actually had to do some troubleshooting.

          • somedaysoon@lemmy.world
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            Try and get the Focusrite Solo at 48k with Windows without using the awful software that comes with it, in Linux it’s literally plug and play. It goes both ways, that’s what Windows plebs don’t understand. All the issues Windows plebs complain about in Linux, are also present in Windows: driver issues, updates breaking userspace, etc.

            Those are common problems. What is not common is the complete lack of control and customization, the ads and telemetry data, and the dogshit workflows that Windows offers.

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              1 year ago

              Attacking people because there are valid criticisms of Linux, which you haven’t refuted at all, shows how utterly stupid you are.

              Yes there are valid criticisms of Windows. No that does not give you a pass to attack people who use it, they have made their own choice.

              One device, which you admit works with the correct drivers, doesn’t remotely compare to a glaring flaw with audio that I can find first mentioned in 2002 still impacting Linux today.

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                I haven’t attacked anyone… yet, but the cognitive dissonance of that first sentence, oh my! Do you have any self-awareness at all? I can’t imagine contradicting myself in the same fucking sentence, lmao, you’re straight up delusional my guy.

                I explained why they are not valid criticisms and you’re missing my point that it goes both ways, but anyway… thanks for that opening sentence and confirming your opinions don’t merit consideration. I will no longer waste time conversing with you, not because you are ignorant but because you quite obviously lack critical thinking abilities.

            • meat_popsicle@sh.itjust.works
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              It goes both ways, that’s what Windows plebs don’t understand. All the issues Windows plebs …

              Does it make you a patrician to use Linux? Are you a father figure now to society?

              We plebeians are just waiting on your glory to shine upon us, o high one.

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                Are you offended that I am calling your knowledge into question over invalid criticisms? Instead of being offended, maybe take the time and learn from it. At the end of the day, if you want an extremely limited OS that spies on you, it’s your life… but maybe you should reconsider participating in a Linux sublem.

                • meat_popsicle@sh.itjust.works
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                  Calling anybody a pleb means everything you say is discounted. You have an arrogance that’s wildly unhinged.

                  I wish you luck, o wise patrician. May the glory of Rome shine forever upon you.

    • ashok36@lemmy.world
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      This. I get a wild hair every couple years to daily drive Linux and there’s always something small but crucial that breaks within a day or so and there’s no way for me, a relative novice, to fix it.

      Example: I picked up a old ThinkPad on ebay last year. I put Ubuntu on it and after a day or two the wifi just stops working. No error messages. Nothing. I tried digging into the settings via ui with no luck. Googling didn’t help because I couldn’t tell what was helpful, unhelpful, or would have been helpful but is five years out of date.

      After a few days of trying to make it work, I just threw on windows and haven’t had any issues since.

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        I’ve always had the opposite experience, especially with hardware like older thinkpads. Trying to use windows, everything runs so slowly, I have to try to find the right wifi and sound drivers from the manufacturers website, and make sure you get the right driver version that works with Windows 10. Then windows update runs and overwrites your drivers with Microsoft drivers that don’t work.

        Installing Ubuntu, everything works straight out of the box, don’t need to go hunting all over the internet for installer packages.

        • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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          I have to try to find the right wifi and sound drivers from the manufacturers website, and make sure you get the right driver version that works with Windows 10.

          Meanwhile these drivers don’t even exist for Linux

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                Fair, but the person above you was talking about ThinkPads… Laptops with network adapters that have no Linux drivers are very rare. In the large majority of cases network adapters have drivers in the kernel, and almost all of the rest have drivers that need to be installed after. I used to work at a PC shop where I would very often use a Linux live CD to test hardware if Windows was having issues that seemed to be driver related. 90% of the hardware we worked on were laptops, so I booted Linux on a lot of them. There was never a laptop that didn’t work out of the box on Linux. They certainly exist, but they are not as common as you think they are.

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        Whenever I’ve used an old Thinkpad with windows on it, it has been slow to the point of being unusable. Linux is much better in this regard, let alone after a few years of use.

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      Except can’t trust corporate clowns to keep shit working… Once they they obtain market share, they start doing weird things, recent example win11 where they make it less useable just because fuck plebs.

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    Remember that Android is Linux-based – so keeping that in mind, a massive amount of normal users use Linux on a daily basis.

    I think the key is, operating systems are meant to exist in the background. If it’s working well, you don’t think about it at all.

    • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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      Remember that Android is Linux-based

      People keep saying this without understanding that Android was forked with several billion dollars in funding and aimed squarely at “normal” users, and had a decade of development since then.

      Most “Linux” OSes really don’t bother with this. How many times has someone sent you into the Android terminal to fix a problem? Literally never. It doesn’t even exist without connecting a PC. Because you don’t need it.

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        Eh, I dont mean to be pedantic, but OS shouldnt be a service. Its should be a product.

        Windows 11 is what happens when you make an OS a service… and no one wants that.

  • Melpomene@kbin.social
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    Linux user here, also once upon a time a Windows admin. I think the most difficult thing for most users is not that Linux is difficult, but that it is different.

    Take Pop_OS for example. For the average “I check email and surf the web” user, it works wonderfully. But most people grew on Windows or Mac so its just not what they’re used to. Linux is kind of the stick shift to Windows and Mac’s automatic transmission… its not hard to learn, but most folk don’t choose to make the effort because they don’t need to.

  • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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    This is always a hilarious conversation because the diehard Linux users will lie up and down about how Linux has no problems and it’s just you that’s too dumb to understand how to use it.

    • NathanUp@lemmy.ml
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      Initial setup can be hard, and then, because GNU/Linux lets you do whatever you want, It’s not hard to bork the system if you’re using commands you don’t understand. The biggest realization for me was that if I want a stable system, I can’t expect to experiment with it / customize it to the nth degree unless I have a robust rollback / recovery solution like timeshift in place. Feeling very empowered after leaving windows, I have destroyed many systems, but truly, if you set up your system and then leave it alone, these days it’s not difficult to have a good experience.

      But yea, you’re totally right: the userbase can be toxic AF, and there’s no one place you can go to learn the basics you really ought to know.

      • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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        Initial setup can be hard, and then, because GNU/Linux lets you do whatever you want, It’s not hard to bork the system if you’re using commands you don’t understand.

        But it borks itself. It doesn’t require my assistance.

        • rocketeer8015@discuss.tchncs.de
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          Nope, it doesn’t. It always requires human assistance or random hardware failure. It’s either the user, the distro, package maintainer or upstream fucking up.

          Personally I blame half on users for picking the wrong distro(not suited for beginners) and half on the linux community giving poor advice(use the terminal). Not everyone has the time or inclination to become a power user and if people wouldn’t be so thickheaded and recommending the same problematic distros over and over to these people it wouldn’t be such a mess.

          I have a 80 year old neighbour whose old windows laptop was a mess and who was open to trying a new OS(because he couldn’t operate windows either anyway). I setup a MicroOS system for him, put a taskbar extension on it and showed him how to install software from gnome-software(which only has flatpaks). ZERO problems in half a year. He doesn’t have to do anything nor learn anything. He happily installed some card games, reads the few websites he follows and that’s it.

          • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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            Nope, it doesn’t.

            Yep…it does.

            It’s either the user, the distro, package maintainer or upstream fucking up.

            Yes that’s what I’m referring to.

            • rocketeer8015@discuss.tchncs.de
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              So it’s people borking it and not the “system itself”. You have control over which people are involved in the software on your system ne it affects the likelihood of it ending up borked.

          • NathanUp@lemmy.ml
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            Agreed, you get to pick between a system that empowers you to do whatever you like, or an unborkable system. If you need something that won’t let you shoot yourself in the foot, you ought to be using an immutable distro.

            For ages I blamed GNU/Linux for breaking when I was unknowingly causing issues. These days, I don’t fix what isn’t broken, and if I can’t help myself, I make sure I understand what I’m doing, write down any changes I make, and ensure I have a snapshot ready in case things don’t work out.

            GNU/Linux may not exclusively be for advanced users anymore, but system customization still is.

            • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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              Agreed, you get to pick between a system that empowers you to do whatever you like, or an unborkable system.

              Yeah that’s not true. There is no such thing as an “unborkable” system. There are, however, systems that aren’t often borked by their developers, and systems that are easy or intuitive to fix when they do become borked, or systems that quickly ship a fix when they do become “borked” (this is Windows BTW).

              The implication that any “borked” Linux install was somehow self-inflicted by the user is ridiculous.

        • VonVoelksen@discuss.tchncs.de
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          No, no OS “borks” itself. You just didnt realise what you did and why it borked your system in the end. This happens to Windows-Users too. I ended up reinstalling so many Windows machines and the user always told me they didnt do anything. I use Linux for about three years now and had to reinstall several times, because I made mistakes I couldn`t identify as mistakes at that moment. Sometimes Linux is complicated and you have to search for a solution. If you would have used Linux your whole life an switched to Windows, your experience would be very similar.

    • s20@lemmy.ml
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      Hey, the other day I set up a fresh Arch install in like an hour; it was easy as hell with Arch Installer in its current state. But that’s me - I’ve been running Linux for a while, so i might be a bit out of touch with what new folks have issues with.

      That said, I think a lot of problems new users have with Linux really do come down to foolish mistakes, an unwillingness to read manuals, expecting Linux to work like Windows/Mac, or a combination of the above.
      Not all problems, but many.

      • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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        Setting is up is always easy. Having it do what you need it to, day in and day out, without fail, is the hard part.

  • Obsession@sh.itjust.works
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    I’m a devops engineer, so I understand Linux well. I actually used exclusively Linux all throughout university.

    Linux works just as good as windows for 98% of my uses cases. And for the 2% that it doesnt, I can probably figure out how to get it to work or an alternative.

    But honestly, I usually just don’t want to anymore. After working 8 hours, I’m very seldom in the mood to do more debugging, so I switch to Windows more and more frequently.

    If this is my experience as someone who understands it, most normies will just fuck off the moment the first program they want to run doesn’t.

  • philluminati@lemmy.ml
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    People hate Linux because shows they aren’t computer experts, they’re just Windows power users.

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        Man 100%. If anyone wants to be a computer expert and is struggling, just stick with it and keep learning. You have to learn through experimentation and effort!

        It’s just an attitude thing that some people’s egos are hurt when Linux confuses them.

  • megane-kun@lemm.ee
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    The following sums up my experience with Linux thus far: “It’s never been easier for the newb to jump right in, but heavens help them if they ever stray from the straight path”.

    There’s been a lot of effort to make things easier for a newb (used to Windows and all that shit) to do what they need to do in most cases. There’s been all sorts of GUI-based stuff that means for the ‘average’ user, there’s really no need for them to interact with the command line. That’s all well and good until you need to do something that wasn’t accounted for by the devs or contributors.

    All of a sudden, you’d have not only to use the command line, you may also have to consult one of the following:

    • Well-meaning, easy to understand, but ultimately unhelpfully shallow help pages (looking at you, Libre Office), or the opposite: deep, dense, and confusing (Arch) Wiki pages.
    • One of the myriads of forum pages each telling the user to RTFM, “program the damned thing yourself”, “go back to Windows”, all of the above, or something else that delivers the same unhelpful message.
    • Ultra-dense and technical man pages of a command that might possibly be of help.

    And that’s already assuming you’ve got a good idea of what the problem was, or what it is that you are to do. Trouble-shooting is another thing entirely. While it’s true that Linux has tons of ways to make troubleshooting a lot easier, such as logs, reading through them is a skill a lot of us don’t have, and can’t be expected of some newb coming from Windows.

    To be fair to Linux though, 90% of the time, things are well and good. 9% of the time, there’s a problem here and there, but you’re able to resolve it with a little bit of (online) help, despite how aggravating some of that “help” might be. 1% of the time, however, Linux will really test your patience, tolerance, and overall character.

    Unfortunately, it’s that 10% that gives Linux its “hard to use” reputation, and the 1% gives enough scary stories for people to share.

  • kyub@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 year ago
    1. False promises early on

    We desktop Linux users are partly to blame for this. In ~1998 there was massive hype and media attention towards Linux being this viable alternative to Windows on the desktop. A lot of magazines and websites claimed that. Well, in 1998 I can safely say that Linux could be seen as an alternative, but not a mainstream compatible one. 25 years later, it’s much easier to argue that it is, because it truly is easy to use nowadays, but back then, it certainly wasn’t yet. The sad thing is, that we Linux users kind of caused a lot of people to think negatively about desktop Linux, just because we tried pushing them towards it too early on. A common problem in tech I think, where tech which isn’t quite ready yet is being hyped as ready. Which leads to the second point:

    1. FUD / lack of information / lack of access to good, up to date information

    People see low adoption rates, hear about “problems” or think it’s a “toy for nerds”, or still have an outdated view on desktop Linux. These things stick, and probably also cause people to think “oh yeah I’ve heard about that, it’s probably nothing for me”

    1. Preinstallations / OEM partnerships

    MS has a huge advantage here, and a lot of the like really casual ordinary users out there will just use whatever comes preinstalled on their devices, which is in almost 100% of all cases Windows.

    1. Schools / education

    They still sometimes or even often(?) teach MS product usage, to “better prepare the students for their later work life where they almost certainly use ‘industry standard’ software like MS Office”. This gets them used to the combo MS Windows+Office at an early age. A massive problem, and a huge failure of the education system to not be neutral in that regard.

    1. Hardware and software devs ALWAYS ensure that their stuff is compatible with Windows due to its market share, but don’t often ensure this for Linux, and whether 3rd party drivers are 100% feature complete or even working at all, is not sure

    So you still need to be a bit careful about what you use (hardware & software) on Linux, while for Windows it’s pretty much “turn your brain off, pick anything, it’ll work”. Just a problem of adoption rate though, as Linux grew, its compatibility grew as well, so this problem decreased by a lot already, but of course until everything will also automatically work on Linux, and until most devs will port their stuff to Linux as well as Windows and OS X, it will still need even more market share for desktop Linux. Since this is a known chicken-egg-effect (Linux has low adoption because software isn’t available, but for software to become available, Linux marketshare needs to grow), we need to do it anyway, just to get out of that “dilemma”. Just like Valve did when they said one day “ok f*ck this, we might have problems for our main business model when Microsoft becomes a direct competitor to Steam, so we must push towards neutral technologies, which is Linux”. And then they did, and it worked out well for them, and the Linux community as a whole benefited from this due to having more choice now on which platforms their stuff can run. Even if we’re talking about a proprietary application here, it’s still a big milestone when you can run so many more applications/games suddenly on Linux, than before, and it drives adoption rates higher as well. So there you have a company who just did it, despite market share dictating that they shouldn’t have done that. More companies need to follow, because that will also automatically increase desktop Linux marketshare, and this is all inter-connected. More marketshare, more devs, more compatibility, more apps available, and so on. Just start doing it, goddamnit. Staying on Windows means supporting the status quo and not helping to make any positive progress.

    1. Either the general public needs to become more familiar with CLI usage (I’d prefer that), or Linux desktop applications need to become more feature-complete so that almost everything a regular user needs can be done via GUI as well

    This is still not the case yet, but it’s gotten better. Generally speaking: If you’re afraid of the CLI, Linux is not something for you probably. But you shouldn’t be afraid of it. You also aren’t afraid of chat prompts. Most commands are easy to understand.

    1. The amount of choice the user is confronted with (multiple distros, desktop environments, and so on) can lead to option paralysis

    So people think they either have to research each option (extra effort required), or are likely to “choose wrong”, and then don’t choose at all. This is just an education issue though. People need to realize that this choice isn’t bad, but actually good, and a consequence of an open environment where multiple projects “compete” for the same spot. Often, there are only a few viable options anyway. So it’s not like you have to check out a lot. But we have to make sure that potential new users know which options are a great starting point for them, and not have them get lost in researching some niche distros/projects which they shouldn’t start out with generally.

    1. “Convenience is a drug”

    Which means a lot of people, even smart ones, will not care about any negatives as long as the stuff they’re using works without any perceived user-relevant issues. Which means: they’ll continue to use Windows even after it comes bundled with spyware, because they value the stuff “working” more than things like user control/agency, privacy, security and other more abstract things. This is problematic, because they position themselves in an absolute dependency where they can’t get out of anymore and where all sorts of data about their work, private life, behavior, and so on is being leaked to external 3rd parties. This also presents a high barrier of convincing them to start becoming more technically independent: why should they make an effort to switch away from something that works in their eyes? This is a huge problem. It’s the same with Twitter/X or Reddit, not enough people switch away from those, even though it’s easy to do nowadays. Even after so much negative press lately most still stick around. It’s so hard to get the general population moving to something better once they’ve kind of stuck with one thing already. But thankfully, at least on Windows, the process of “enshittification” (forced spyware, bloatware, adware, cloud integrations, MS accounts) continues at a fast pace, which means many users won’t need to be convinced to use Linux, but rather they will at some point be annoyed by Windows/Microsoft itself. Linux becoming easier to use and Windows becoming more annoying and user-hostile at the same time will thankfully accelerate the “organic” Linux growth process, but it’ll still take a couple of years.

    1. “Peer pressure” / feeling of being left alone

    As a desktop Linux user, chances are high that you’re an “outsider” among your peers who probably use Windows. Not everyone can feel comfortable in such a role over a longer period of time. Just a matter of market share, again, but still can pose a psychological issue maybe in some cases. Or it can lead to peer pressure, like when some Windows game or something isn’t working fully for the Linux guy, that there will be peer pressure to move to Windows just to get that one working. As one example.

    1. Following the hype of new software releases and thinking that you always need the most features or that you need the “industry standard” when you don’t really need it.

    A lot of users probably prefer something like MS Office with its massive feature set and “industry standard” label over the libre/free office suites. Because something that has less features could be interpreted as being worse. But here it’s important to educate such users that it really only matters whether all features they NEED are present. And if so, it wouldn’t matter for them which they use. MS Office for example has a multi-year lead in development (it was already dominating the office suite market world-wide when Linux was still being born so to say) so of course it has more features accumulated over this long time, but most users actually don’t need them. Sure, everyone uses a different subset of features, but it’s at least likely that the libre office suites contain everything most users need. So it’s just about getting used to them. Which is also hard, to make a switch, to change your workflows, etc., so it would be better if MS Office could work on Linux so that people could at least be able to continue to use that even though it’s not recommended to do so (proprietary, spyware, MS cloud integrations). But since I’m all for having more options, it would at least be better in general for it to be available as well. But until that happens, we need to tell potential new users that they probably can also live with the alternatives just fine.

  • ocassionallyaduck@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I’m a lifelong windows power user, and above average even in my industry for knowledge on technical expertise.

    Nothing I know translates to Linux. Not the file structures, the commands, the permissions, the file systems.

    You truly have to commit to learning an entirely parallel form of computing environment to become comfortable in Linux. And being frank, it is the most customizable and unique user experience out there, but it is also infinitely less user friendly. And for every time a 2 line terminal command fixes a problem and saves time compared with windows, there are dozens of instances where time is wasted for hours learning that command, its exact syntax and usage, and if it is the one you need for your circumstance.

    Another user here recently said that it was when they were going through and compiling their own drivers to make their Webcam work and having to follow guides to make system specific tweaks that they just quit and went back to Windows for ease of use.

    Linux is the OS of power users. Not even power users like me, but extreme power users who either have the time or training to learn that parallel system. All of which is easy if this is your job, but in many ways you are learning a second language of sorts.

    • cyberian_khatru@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      yup, this hits the nail on the head for me. I consider myself very tech literate; I am my family’s IT guy. I even have Mint installed in a separate drive but I seldom use it unless I have nothing else to do for an afternoon. And the reason is that the more I know about windows (be it editing the registry, troubleshooting services, learning diagnostics tools…) the less comparatively capable I feel in a linux environment. It’s like moving countries after I spent my whole life learning this city and I could’t even speak my native language anymore. Yeah I know it works out of the box and there’s wine and I can make my UX the same. But, going back to my metaphor, that feels like moving to a different country and just not leaving my house and only talking to the people I knew back home. Yeah it would be the same if I severely constrict my comfort zone. You just have to learn a bunch of new shit and leave all you know behind and that’s just one distro. Because YEAH linux isn’t an OS it’s a whole family of operating systems. The nerd yelling that it’s a kernel is right in the worst way possible. I can learn Mint but I can form an opinion on Linux because I still wouldn’t know shit about Arch or Fedora or Gentoo or what-have-you. It’s all very daunting and what I have is functional. No, not “functional enough”. This does literally everything I want in less than 4 clicks, everything is plug-and-play, everything works out of the box (and if it doesn’t you’re sure as shit it wouldn’t work out of the box on linux), my knowledge on windows is applicable on every machine I find, it’s the system everyone expects me to have (I’m fucking sure the software my uni made me install for online tests wouldn’t have a Linux installer). It’s not just that the path of least resistance points to mac/windows, Linux as a whole also has very potent repelling field. I still want to learn it but not because I see any practical value/utility in it.

    • Square Singer@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      I think you are right, but I also think it’s a bit more in the relearning side than on the “Linux is hard” side.

      I also spent most of my time working on Windows. When I started to work with Linux, like the OP I spent many years with in the “use it until I mess something up and then reinstall because I can’t fix it” loop. But after a few years I really got into it. I haven’t done a misconfiguration related reinstall in many years.

      But if you put me in front of a Mac, I wouldn’t even know how to copy/paste text.

      • megane-kun@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        But if you put me in front of a Mac, I wouldn’t even know how to copy/paste text.

        I’ve had to troubleshoot router problems for a neighbor who uses Mac, and man was it a confusing experience. The UX is obviously Mac, so I’ve had trouble with it. But when I got to the command-line, it almost broke me. Why I was even in the command-line in the first place? I don’t even know! But it’s a confusing mix of familiar (from daily-driving Linux), and unfamiliar (different Mac-specific commands and syntax).

        Someone else could probably point out what I’ve done wrong, but it still doesn’t make it not a confusing experience. It’s humbling, and the kids who’ve hung around me watching me try to fix their computer were even giving me tips (mostly on how to navigate the UI, helping me where to find the settings, etc).

        • Square Singer@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Yeah, goes to show that one doesn’t know/learn “computers” but OS specific stuff.

          I don’t know “computers”, I know Windows and Debian-like Linux.

  • warmaster@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Lots of things don’t have a GUI, if we expect users to eat up the CLI, the year of the Linux desktop will never come.

    • ScreaminOctopus@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Idk if this is really true, I don’t what situations you need to use the command line in Ubuntu or Fedora that would affect more than 10% of users max. You install packages through the store, wifi can be managed through the gui, external drives mount automatically. Imo this should cover the use case for almost everyone.

      • warmaster@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Things you can’t do with a GUI:

        • you can’t manage advanced power management profiles
        • you can’t manage devices
        • you can’t manage services
        • you can’t manage firewall in GNOME
        • Device Security is almost useless
        • There’s no versioned backup system that does both user files & system snapshots integrated into the Desktop Environment and the DE settings app.
        • There’s no DCONF equivalent for KDE (that I know of), the need for DCONF shouldn’t even exist.
        • No integrated, easy to use & performant remote desktop software (VNC is not enough, RDP in GNOME just doesn’t work, Sunshine is a pain to setup)

        I’m an Arch user, so I’ll talk about it below:

        • There’s no real GUI for Pacman, Pamac is known for horrible stuff. Alternatives are very inferior.
        • There’s no GUI for system updates integrated into the settings app

        3rd party crap:

        • Nvidia (nuff said)
        • Flatpak (convenient, but it’s still a mess)

        Props to:

        • AMD, I love you guys.
  • Uno@monyet.cc
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    As a linux noob, I can’t give some in depth explanation, but I can empathize over troubles troubleshooting 😭

    I mean, to first acknowledge the base difficulties of just getting used to a new operating system that doesn’t want to hold your hand, all the troubleshooting advice being splintered across multiple distros and updates, and most software just not being designed to be compatible with Linux, it’s impressive there are distros that manage to be beginner-friendly-ish in the first place.

    For instance, when I was setting up Ubuntu, the following didn’t work out of the box:

    • The general need to reinstall every program you use
    • The microphone
    • Switching between Windows and Ubuntu led to a weird time difference on Window’s part (it still does)
    • My fingerprint sensor stopped working (I don’t even think this is fixable)
    • My brightness hotkeys stopped working (they still don’t)
    • touchpad scrolling was really fast (I honestly just got used to this rather than fixing it)
    • Increased the icon size of a lot of things
    • Set up night light settings

    But more than that, I’d say one of the hardest things about Linux is that it is so customizable it inspires me to find a solution to issues I would’ve just ignored on Windows. For example:

    • I moved the time bar from the top of the screen to the bottom
    • Set up my own searx instance (though I hardly use it, if anyone knows how to run a set of code on computer startup please lmk)
    • Installed wine, Lutris, and software to support Linux gaming
    • Set my wallpaper to rotate between a bunch of landscape photos

    But ig that’s just my 2 cents. Really I wrote this to feel proud of myself for all the troubleshooting I’ve done 😭

    Edit: I frfr love all yall who responded to this with genuine advice, what a great community

  • Axellon@lemm.ee
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    In my experience, when Linux works, it’s beautiful (yay package managers). But once you have an issue or go off the beaten path, it can get complex and confusing very quickly. You’ll find a perfect fix… oh wait, that’s for Red Hat. This is Ubuntu and everything is different.

    This man page is thirty pages long and has in depth descriptions of all fifty switches in alphabetical order, but all i want is an example on how to do a very simple, common thing with it. And of course, all commands have their own syntax (of course windows isn’t any better, outside of Powershell).

    Don’t curl to bash, it’s dangerous. But heaven help the adventurer that tries to do the install manually. And building from the source? Hah!

    The registry gets a ton of shit, and yes, it can be opaque and confusing, but hundreds of text files in hundreds of random directories (that might be a different place on a different distro), all with their own syntax, isn’t necessarily all that more intuitive.

    You want this to work differently? Then code a fix yourself! What do you mean you’re not a programmer?

    I had multiple Ubuntu installs stop updating because the installer by default made the /boot partition (IIRC) something like 100MB. Do a couple updates and that gets filled up with unused files, and then apt craps itself. And this wasn’t all too long ago - well after the point it was supposed to be the district for the everyman.

    Like you, I want to like it more, but it’s never smooth sailing. Granted, a lot of that is familiarity with Windows (and believe me, many curses have been thrown MS’s way), but it always seems to turn into a struggle.

    • Squibbles@lemmy.world
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      Not just “oh this is for redhat and I’m on Ubuntu” but what I run into all the time is that you find a perfect guide but it turns out to be for the wrong version of Ubuntu. So most of it works until you get half way through and you get an error because they’ve switched from initd to systemd or something. Then you are stuck, do you try to roll back what you’ve done so far? Try to adapt the instructions to the new system? Then you end up chasing your tail down rabbit holes of what is backwards compatible, what isn’t, what can coexist and what can’t, etc etc etc.

      If you have been using a particular distro and are familiar with the subsystems then the new version comes out and you just have to learn about the few changes in the release but for someone new it adds a whole second layer of complexity to have to learn the whole new OS in addition to trying to blindly figure out how the old system worked, what’s different in the new system and how you adapt instructions from the old one to the new one, or if you should just give up and try to find a different guide that will work.

  • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    When I was a child we had basic computer literacy classes in elementary school. They showed you how to get around Windows and use computers a bit. Somehow, I doubt that those kinds of classes ever taught Linux.

    But the real problem I think is that Linux distros also never had Microsoft’s budget to develop, assemble, test, and release the operating system + software suite. The fact that Linux is as good as it is in spite of that is really something special.

  • krellor@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    For most people computers are just the same as cars. People want a car that will drive them from place to place, are easy to refuel, easy to operate, and can be taken to an expert for anything difficult or that requires specialized knowledge. Same for computers. Most people want a computer to navigate the web, install the apps they are used to and that their friends use, is easy to operate, and can be taken to an expert for any involved work.

    Even the friendliest of Linux distro don’t check all those boxes. You cant get ready support from a repair shop, many of the apps are different or function differently, and it doesn’t receive all the same love and attention from major third party developers as Windows does.

    Most people could learn to use Linux; it’s not that hard. Most people could learn to change their own oil. But for most people, it’s not worth it. For most people it’s not the journey, it’s the destination and cars and computers are just tools to get there.

    • voidMainVoid@lemmy.world
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      To use your car analogy, using Windows is like using a car that has the hood welded shut and can only be opened with a special key that only the auto manufacturer has.

      You can’t repair it yourself. You can’t just take it to any expert to get it fixed. Only the manufacturer can fix it, because the source code (or car hood) is closed.

      • Kushan@lemmy.world
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        That’s not really a fair analogy, Windows isn’t that locked down. It’s more like the hood is open and for general maintenance you’re fine, but all the parts are proprietary so if something breaks, you can only go to one manufacturer who controls the entire supply chain for that part. However, the parts are generally okay quality so for most people who just drive A to B, they’re unlikely to encounter too many issues.

        Linux is a kit car. You can pretty much build it yourself or have one preassembled but either way you can rip any part of it out and replace any component with anything you like, entirely within your control. Most people wouldn’t have the competency to build one themselves because most people don’t really know how cars work but for those that do, it’s the dream.

        I genuinely don’t believe that one approach is better than another, but I do believe that the majority of folks out there want something that “just works” and Linux is usually not that option. Not on the desktop.

        • voidMainVoid@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          What about Ubuntu? Pop OS?

          Most of the distros I’ve tried “just work”. It connects to my wifi, I can go on websites, I can read my email. What are you trying to do that isn’t working?

          • Bandicoot_Academic@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            You are pretty lucky if you haven’t experienced any issues. For most people thogh spots are gonna be:

            1. Gaming. While a lot of games work perfectly a lot also don’t work (mainly if they have a kernel level anticheat rootkit)

            2. Nvidia. Do i have to say any more?

            3. Wifi. Often wifi cards just don’t work or work very poorly.

            4. Laptop specific features. Stuff like a MUX switch, ambient light sensors and fingerprint scanners very often have no drivers for linux.

          • WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            It’s been more than a couple years since Ive tried using Linux (back when I used it as my primary os).

            My experience have been mostly with ubuntu-based OSes like Mint. First laptop I installed Linux on, the audio didn’t just work. It didn’t work at all for a while, despite trying many fixes. Otherwise it actually did work decently well. On my next laptop, it would just one day no longer boot or login for some reason or another and I’d just have to do a clean install because I didn’t know how to fix it. That happened maybe every other month? On both laptops, the two-finger scroll behavior had settings to change how it behaved in the default installed software, but on Linux it was always finicky getting it to work the way I wanted.

            Also installing things is a lot more annoying for stuff that require command line vs just clicking it and telling it to install.