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I think you overestimate the amount of left leaning people in the U.S.
Who said Lefts didn’t vote for Harris?
Are you manufacturing this? Where are the exit polls?
Might a better reason for why Fascism won with this election be that Democrats, including Biden, Harris, the DNC, and the consulting class, failed to campaign to their own base, and even more than their base since most Americans, Dems and Reps, approve of progressive policies?
Projection man
Biden got ~81m votes in 2020, Harris only got ~67m. >14m fewer people voted for her.
Trump also dropped by ~2m, only getting ~72m this time around vs. ~74m in 2020.
Trump didn’t win because of a giant right-wing national shift, he won because of voter apathy on the left.
There was certainly a right wing shift. The DNC did their very best (e.g. Cheney) to capture republican voters rather than represent the workers.
You need to seperate out the political machine from the populace.
The DNC did make a right-ward play to try and peel centrist/moderate voters who identify as Republicans but didn’t necessarily want to vote for Trump. They did this on the (now we know false) assumption that their base would turn out automagically.
But again, Trump won with fewer votes this time around than he lost in 2020 to Biden with. He didn’t gain standing, the only reason he was victorious was because those left of centre failed to show up to the polls. Voter apathy doesn’t denote a right-wing shift; it denotes a shit political platform.
Voters are still voting rather progressively on state-wide ballot measures, the people haven’t gotten more conservative - despite what the (elite-owned) media narrative would have you believe. Every datapoint and infographic regarding voter demographics is based on %s of voters, rather than absolute demographics.
And you assume it’s the left because? Not everyone who voted for Biden in 2020 was a leftist, and most weren’t.
As in to the left of the (imaginary) political centre; not self-identifying Leftists. This cohort includes centrists, moderates, liberals and leftists amongst others.
That’s not what left means, but whatever.
I have to admit that I haven’t delved into the exit polls and analyzed which social groups migrated right or not.
But one thing that’s different about the 2024 election compared to 2020 is that COVID wasn’t happening to the same degree. There were a ton more mail-in ballots 2020 due to social distancing, which helped both parties as a bump in votes.
Why use 2020 as a data point though? Why not 2016? Why not 2012 and 2008? Might those elections be slightly different because a 1-in-100-year pandemic wasn’t happening?
If you compare those numbers, does the Dems’ numbers compare to those elections?
I want to say someone on Lemmy already posted the numbers recently in one of these posts. From what I recall, Dems’ votes returned close to pre-COVID levels albeit a degree lower, yet Reps’ votes were above pre-COVID levels. Why?
Might the explanation be the societal shift towards the right?
And how can you not see the national shift to the right in how the Democrats speak to rallies and voters? We are considerably more right-wing as a country than ever in the recent decades. This election was a Republican primary with how Kamala ran on pre-Trump conservative values and policies.
Maybe apathy exists on the Left because it is increasingly the case that Democrats don’t represent them anymore.
I used 2020 as a comparison for a few reasons;
- It was the most recent result prior to the 2024 election, so it will have the most comparable demographics.
- voting infrastructure from the COVID-era is still largely in place, allowing for more early and postal voting than pre-COVID. So earlier years are less comparable.
- presidential elections are just as much about voting against the worse candidate, if not more-so, than voting for a preferred one.
- both 2020 and 2024 could be seen as referendums on Trump’s policies, presidency and suitability for a second term.
Rather than looking at percentages, the individual counts are more important as they tell the underlying story.
The DNC’s GOTV campaign absolutely failed to motivate their base and undecided voters. Perhaps that was somewhat intentional, as a lot of the former GOP aligned ‘never-Trump’ campaign financiers have shifted to the Dems and have used their new-found influence to nudge the party’s platform rightward. The Cheney endorsements certainly didn’t do them any favours!
But looking at how even deep-red states have voted in support of abortion rights, shows that the general US populace is generally slowly drifting leftward - despite what the corporate-owned media narrative would have you believe.
I’ll agree with you on the 2020 voting laws carrying forward (although I haven’t looked into the state laws, especially the red ones to see if those have been repealed yet because that’s what tends to happen).
Also agreed on the DNC’s and Harris’ messaging. I also blame Biden because if we wanted to prepare to fight against Trump in the election where he was his most popular, the Dems would have ran an actual primary.
Definitely agreed too on the general sentiment of Americans supporting leftist policies. We see this with Bashear in Kentucky, and recently the middle wage and abortion policies in Missouri. Although you might be able to balance that by Florida’s outcome with their referendums as well as California.
Ultimately it comes down to messaging and optics. Democrats need to figure out a way to package progressive policy in a way that capture the imaginations and hopes of their base while at the same time not scaring those towards the center into believing those same policies are socialist or communist.
I’m not familiar with the California referendum in question, but Florida saw over 57% vote in favour of extending abortion rights.
The only reason it lost was because it required at least 60% to pass; instead Florida now gets to experience the tyranny of minority rule.
Leftist here. I voted for Kamala. All the leftist media I consumed argued for voting for Kamala. All the leftists I knew vote for Kamala.
What are you talking about?
Leftists are so insignificant that we don’t need to make any concessions to them but so powerful that they are responsible for any Democratic loss.
Leftists are just about the only group that will go around saying they “won’t vote” if there isn’t a candidate making enough concessions to them. Leftists are a small group but they are enough they could sway an election if they came out and made their voices heard by voting instead of just holding signs and yelling. But getting that to happen isn’t as simple as just saying you’re against the genocide, because Harris did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting unions, because she did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ, because she did that and it wasn’t enough.
The right isn’t stupid enough to believe that they can get their oligarchy without winning elections, but belief in incremental change is fundamentally incompatible with a lot of leftist ideology.
Democrats spend far too much time and energy pretending everyone to the left of the Democrats are anti-electoralist anarchists.
getting that to happen isn’t as simple as just saying you’re against the genocide, because Harris did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting unions, because she did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ, because she did that and it wasn’t enough.
Yes. You’re absolutely correct that what the Democrats are doing is not enough. If the DNC can get that through their thick skulls, maybe we have a chance next time.
You can’t just say you support unions.
You can’t just say you’re against genocide.
You have to make people’s lives materially better, and until the Dems choose to do that, we’re in trouble.
everyone to the left of the Democrats are anti-electoralist anarchists.
I’m an anti-electoralist anarchist and I voted for Kamala because I’m not a fucking idiot.
Until I see an exit poll showing that the folks who turned up for Harris were centrists and the left really did sit it out I’m not going to believe any claims to that effect.
There were a few people on the left (with followings on social media) advocating for third party votes because Kamala wouldn’t say that she was going to stop sending money to Israel.
Post election, it looks like third party votes didn’t spoil anything.
Oh yeah, I was arguing with them all the time. I figured they were bots. Seems like they have all dried up right after the election.
Define “dried up”. The election us over and the country chose fascism. What else is there to argue about?
Nope, we’re still here. sorry your candidate lost! maybe she shouldn’t have tossed the 25 electoral points into the trash bin for 2 months right out of the gate. 🤷 If you want votes from the people who are not monsters you need to run candidates who are not monsters. I have yet to see people give a single reason why harris couldn’t have shifted on gaza that isn’t ‘lesser evil’, ‘trump bad’. never mind all the other issues with her campaign. hilariously she and biden and the rest of the dems don’t seem too upset they lost. guess they didnt mind getting trump and losing the senate.
We will all be sorry she lost. Also I voted for the lesser of two evils here. Kamala and I are not ideology aligned. Also I agree with most of your critiques of her campaign, but I think any democratic would have made these mistakes.
Virtue signal harder friend it wont save you. We’ll be here if it actually gets bad but the democrats are done as an option given this last campaign.
How am I virtue signaling? Also, I agree, we are in a era of populism, I think this last election showed that liberal policy wonkery does not sell anymore.
Democrats need to change their tact if they’re planning on winning any more elections.
I voted for harris
you’re straight up virtue signalling by definition. virtue signalling is where a person makes statements that identifies them as part of the ‘group’ they are communicating with in order to make unacceptable actions acceptable.
In this particular case you’re trying to soften the blow for ardent progenocide supporters for harris. unfortunately they need to the cold hard truth to wake them up.
You:
I voted for harris, don’t hurt me, I didnt agree with her but I still was in your group!
Please don’t take my response to you in a negative manner I’m just pointing out what you did. You are free to self reflect on it however you wish. If your position has merit it can stand on its own without resorting to virtue signalling.
But in my opinion this exact behavior is why harris lost. people were so busy virtue signalling they didnt support trump and dog piling all their stress onto anyone who told them harris was going to lose that harris’ campaign didn’t pick up exactly how fucked they actually were over gaza and the economy.
Most people are not like myself, they wont go out of their way to tell you how fucked up something is unless it negatively impacts them. Its why the arabs were screaming the entire campaign but very few others like myself were. instead they saw what was happening and just wrote harris off after comparing her actions to trumps words. Aka: trump may act and say hes a monster, but at least he doesn’t lie to my face about it.
(Most) Third party voters are like cicadas. They spend the majority of their lives immature and underground. Every 4 years they swarm and die quickly to apathy and despair.
Just like cicadas, third party voters will be heavily affected by climate change.
so fix your party? sounds easier than fixing that individual.
Oh it’s you. The one who claimed it was a false dichotomy but I somehow predicted the future.
Let’s both watch what becomes of Gaza over the next four years on top of all the other bullshit Trump will pull.
Thanks for nothing!
You’re welcome you also noted I never denied it would be one or the other. I said it was a false choice that people had to vote for one or the other.
You were warned. you’re welcome for the warning. Im sorry you and harris didnt grasp the breadth of the problem at hand and completely blew the election.
So kindly fix your party or replace them. Im certainly done with them at this point.
That person voted against fascism
Might as well have written in their own name for all the good it could have possibly done.
All the people who didn’t vote against fascism.
Then we’re not talking to you. But a lot of people stayed home and that’s a fact
I’m over pointing fingers and playing holy than thou.
The people who plan to build a Hungarian-style autocratic government are in power now, and they’re hoping the left is exhausted and tired of fighting this shit for a decade.
This shit is going to be dangerous, and we’re going to have to motivate people to push back hard than even. Pointing fingers just divides us and makes us even weaker.
That’s a bummer because progressives couldn’t be bothered to stop an erasure of minorities and lgbt alongside a subjugation of women.
Quite simply, either you align with them or you can get fucked.
At least that’s how it’s currently playing out.
Libs couldn’t bother to stop a genocide to stop a fascist
Shortsighted progressives decided that people they dont know halfway around the world were more important than their friends and family.
Hope you can tell your wife/ girlfriend /sister you had the moral high ground when she’s declared property.
Hey buddy, um, your, uh, your chauvinism is hanging out.
Nothing says chauvinism like wanting women to keep their autonomy.
Maybe tell the guy who voted 3rd party/abstained.
Nothing says chauvinism like saying, “meh, what’s a few hundred thousand lives of brown people on the other side of the world to me.”
Chauvinism is a term used to describe sexism.
I like how you immediately use whataboutisms instead of addressing the problem that is the genocide she was actively conducting.
How about you start with why the genocide is a good thing and harris absolutely must not change her position instead of trying to guilt trip people. oh right… because genocides are actually horrible, and harris could have absolutely changed her position. oh well.
The DNC was most certainly not going to change their positions on the thing mentioned. Im not naive enough to believe abstaining or voting 3rd party would actively change anything for the better.
In fact, doing those things absolutely made things worse.
Again, congrats or your moral high ground. I hope youre lgbt friends are stoked lol
A: “Hey, why didnt you help to stop the rising tide of erasure in the United States?”
B: “People halfway around the world are more important to me than you are.”
You’ll note how you failed to even remotely answer the question i posed everyone:
what prevented harris from shifting positions on gaza if it could have won her the election?
Everything else in your post is the same nonsense you dweebs have been spewing for months.
The DNC was most certainly not going to change their positions on the thing mentioned.
Again why
It doesn’t matter why, and frankly, it’s weird that you think i have inside knowledge of the DNC policy choices.
That was their policy choice, and they stuck to it.
I get it, genocide is absolutely terrible, and it shouldn’t be happening anywhere.
You decided that genocide of palestinian people is worse than the genocide of lgbt and minorities and the subgjugation of women in the United States.
The real question is: why did you decide that people you dont know were more important than people you do know?
I know what i chose. I chose to support the people around me - the people i love and care about.
You chose strangers over the people you care about.
I hope you can look at your lgbt friends and the women you care about in the face and tell them you care about them less than people you dont even fucking know.
You chose the worst of the options.
And weirdly enough, you are happy about it.
And this entire statement doesnt even bring into account that you essentially chose the option that will crank the wheel of genocide (you know, that thing you supposedly hate?) even further.
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“But mom! I got a gun for self defense, how was i supposed to know that you’d be declared property even though they were screaming it at the top of their lungs?”
Its awesome that my post got removed because they can’t admit that they were DEAD WRONG TO HAVE BEEN CENSORING THOSE CALLING FOR ARMING UP FOR SELF-DEFENSE.
FUCK YOU, MODS
Arming for self defense wont matter when the women in your life aren’t legally allowed to have a bank account.
It will be death by a thousand cuts, but at least you’ll have your guns?
Whatcha gonna do about it? And what does “at least you’ll have your guns” mean? Explain.
It means your guns won’t do shit when the law decides your mom is declared property.
The guns won’t change anything because the people making those laws not only have guns but also have the police, the legislative, the judiciary, the military and the executive branch.
Good luck fighting an apc full of military-decked police officers with your ar 15.
The DNC would rather lose with a neoliberal than win with a progressive. If they want to get there shit together they have to win with the working class and ordinary people.
They can’t be elitist centrists. They’ll lose every election if they do. The future is now old man
If they go further left they lose every moderate or right leaning Democratic voter don’t they? Why would you want your voter base to get smaller
To attract people who took one look at this steaming pile of economic dystopia, the parties that both support it, and walked away.
I’m not even talking about the loud ones that claimed to walk away but voted Harris out of conscience and harm reduction.
For someone that wants to live in society and not a bunch of rugged individuals at each other’s throats for oligarch scraps, it is very difficult to look at this cesspool and have hope or engage without feeling filthy and even more hopeless.
That could change if today’s neoliberals were supplanted by anti-corporatists messaging that it isn’t government’s job to get out of the market’s way, but to regulate and straightjacket the market economy into serving society as the lowly tool of society that an economy ought to be.
The people demanding there be winners and losers in an embarrassingly wealthy society ought to go live in the forest with nothing but a knife to see if they win or lose. A society supports one another.
So is it that leftists are too small a group to be worth making political concessions to, or are they a large enough group to have an effect on elections?
Why do Democrats feel entitled to the support of the left when they don’t offer anything to the left?
That’s the problem they’re both. They’re that kick you always need to keep the right wing nuts at bay. But this election the American far left became nuts too and lost their common sense. Anyways enjoy your king
I’m not really a fan of my king, the queen before him was far more likeable.
Pithy remarks aside, I don’t see how the far left can be blamed for Harris losing given the pretty sizable margin by which she lost. And why would leftists be motivated to vote for a party that not only doesn’t offer them anything in terms of policy, but actively courts so called ‘moderate’ Republicans?
Hogwash. The left-right split is way less significant today than the populist-establishment split. Of all the candidates in the 2020 primary, only Bernie, the furthest left, had high approval ratings amongst Republican voters. This isn’t the 1990s.
I’m doing my part! I’m yelling at leftists on the internet!
I did my job. The democrats had one job too, and they failed.
It’s funny cause back when Biden was VP I kept bringing up how he was a terrible Democrat and we should stop making cute uncle Joe memes, cause he’s actually a horrible person who has hurt a lot of people with his blind drug war. And when I would bring that up, the other leftists would downvote me and call me a right winger, because we’re not allowed to criticize our own n side apparently.
So it’s funny that the same people who used to downvote any criticism of “uncle Joe” are the ones that are now calling anyone a Nazi if they support the Democrats.
The left didn’t vote against fascism, but also the center didn’t. And the right, obviously.
Lmao lib shit tally:
Bullshit corporate media reference, check. Blaming the minority for the failure of the party, check Believing politics happens once every four years, check.
They share the blame, certainly, especially in depressing left-leaning turnout, but I think it was largely ‘swing voter’ twats sitting it out.
Suppose we’ll find out when more detailed analysis of this utter fuck-up and handing the keys to one of the most powerful countries in the world to fascists is available.
Blaming the people instead of the wet rag they ran.
The Dems running a wet rag is a significant failing and they share the blame for fascism coming into power.
At the same time, that in no way excuses the thought process of any voter who sat by and said, “I don’t like the wet rag. Let’s go with fascism instead!”
Keep projecting this nonsense onto people you clearly do not understand and see if it gets better. Maybe 2028 will be different.
Maybe 2028 will be different.
HA,HA,HA,HA…~
“Stop calling me out for choosing fascism over the wet rag.”
“Too radical”
“Not radical enough”
“Trump Lite”
“Didn’t care about Trump voters”
“Another predicable establishment candidate”
“We didn’t know her”
“All she said was she not the other guy”
“Didn’t expose Trump enough”
“Joy bullshit! Where are the serious policies?”
“Elections are about feelings and she didn’t have appeal”
“Supports the Gaza genocide”
“Didn’t inspire pro-Israel voters”
“Failed border czar”
“Blue MAGA”
Everyone seems to think they know why Harris lost, and it’s always “didn’t do enough of what I like”. It’s boring and unhelpful.
This may come as a surprise to you, but yes, in a democracy the people are to blame for who gets elected.
In a functional democracy, the candidates would run on things people want. Instead, both parties cater to what the elites want.
The difference between Republicans and Democrats is whether they pay lip service to these policies or not (then Democrats find a way to not pass whatever that policy is, whether it’s with a rotating villain, the parliamentarian, keeping the filibuster, etc).
No? No. Democracy, functional or not, has no direct determining power on what candidates cater to. What democracy does is select the winning candidate, regardless of who the candidate caters to.
We may be a flawed democracy with candidates that cater to the elites, but we’re still a democracy and we still pick the winner.
You’re describing an oligarchy with extra steps, not Democracy.
If democracy doesn’t work for the majority of people, and your party runs on ‘rescuing’ that same democracy while at the same time villinaising the people that do want to improve the people’s economic conditions, you’re not going to be winning elections.
If you want to rescue democracy, you need to show that democracy can work for people, it’s the same mistake Weimar Germany made.
It’s hard to elect one person that works for the majority of the people. The majority of the people aren’t a homogenous group. Not everybody agrees on which policies are the best.
There’s a huge range of policies that poll in the 80-90% range that neither party wants to touch because they upset the donor class.
Maybe the left didn’t vote because there was only right wing parties to vote from.
Extremely right wing - Republican
Slightly centre right - Democrats
The oligarchs’ vision for ‘choice’
There’s some non-zero number of voters who planned to vote for Biden, couldn’t find his name on the ballot, and subsequently filled in the only other name of a President they saw.
“Yeah, he did the job before, he’s got experience…”
I did my part. I voted third party because BOTH PARTIES SUPPORT A FASCIST REGIME COMMITTING GENOCIDE WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS WHILE OUR OWN PEOPLE GO HOMELESS
Cry about it libs! I bet going further right and further ignoring your base will win in 2028! Might as well run Liz Cheney while you’re at it!
Yes that is the not voting against fascism the meme is talking about. You can label not doing your part as doing your part but it’s still not doing your part.
I guess other things were more important.
Not having a genocide of PoC at home wasn’t one of them.
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Hey Micheal, corporate needs you to tell the difference between these two pictures.
