The internet and cloud points are my favorite. Specifically the fact that those things are out of the picture.

No VLAN configuration necessary. The hub is “the VLAN”. They literally can’t phone home because they have no route to the internet, with no extra setup necessary. For WiFi devices, I have to make sure they’re connecting to the right VLAN and controlled properly, and if I misconfigure something, they are phoning home or joining a botnet.

(This stops being as applicable if you have a sketchy hub you don’t trust, but I trust deconz and ZHA fine enough in this context).

Until Zigbee2MQTT breaks again ;P

esp32-c6 (supports zigbee), is pretty cheap.

I’ve never actually tried doing dev on a zigbee board. A cursory glance puts them at £6.
But I can absolutely understand why ESP is so much more popular. Which is a shame, as I like not having to mess with wifi/BLE.

Try getting a Zwave devboard 😅

Don’t download Tuya. 😂

It’s funny, I’m eyeing up an air conditioner atm.
And the one I’m focussing on looks pretty special, not because it runs tuya, but because absolute gods in the FOSS community have made a complete alternative firmware for it that works with HASS directly on the tuya host hardware.

That’s how I’d describe Tommy Wiseau or John Waters lol

Haha, I have no idea. Possibly less corporate, more “small, simple, open system that others can contribute to”.
I can only speak in vagueness on the “european-ness”, to be honest.
HASS/Zigbee have an open, european feel to me.
HomeSeer has a very american “this is the way we’re doing it, it costs this much” feel.

My mind went to IKEA-like with a funny name and modern styling.

But I have no idea if that’s what the author meant.

A wall plug came with a Schuko adapter…

I had the same thought. Is it an insult?

I found hue bulbs to be a lot more responsive once I ditched the hub, and paired my bulbs directly with a zigbee coordinator.

I’ve had next to zero issues with my Hue setup. It’s performed near flawlessly.

Try changing your Zigbee channel. I had awful performance until I tried that. Not always perfect now but WAY better.

I had a dual-hub setup, with ~60 bulbs. I was running close to the max device limit of one so I had to add another. The only issues I’ve had were with a particular model of bulb. The A21 1600lm white. A fifth of the bulbs developed hardware problems which resemble control issues in some but they really are much more serious. They begin to self power cycle. Some eventually die and don’t turn on anymore. Some get loose elements inside. All of that says excess heat. Apart from the problems with this particular bulb I’ve had no problems whatsoever.

I have been doing home automation for almost 30 years. I started with x10, and still have a few x10 devices deployed in my house, so I think I’m in a position to know what I’m talking about here.

There are a few major advantages Zigbee and Zwave have over x10, namely:

• The Zs are fast. X10 takes a quarter to half a second at best to travel through the house and activate the device. If there is noise on your powerline, it takes longer. Sometimes messages are missed. This is old tech, and there isn’t a lot of error correction or signal ack.
• Phase Bridge. X10 uses your house power line to send signals. You may or may not know this, but (at least in the US) your power is split into one or more electrical phases. The X10 signals are absolutely terrible at crossing from one phase to the other, and it isn’t always obvious when you plug something in which phase that outlet is on. This leads to a lot of troubleshooting. Things like phase bridges exist to solve this, but they aren’t terribly reliable.
• Wireless. The Zs don’t need to be connected to your powerline to function. There are no powerline x10 devices that run on batteries for obvious reasons. This allows for a lot more versitility.
• No setting house/device codes. If you have ever actually used X10, you know each device has its own house and device code that needs to be selected (usually with a tiny screwdriver while crawling on the floor in the dark, but I digress). This is all handled digitally and is more or less plug and play with zigbee and zwave.
• Encryption. Any idiot with an extension cord and some free time can connect to a power jack on the outside of your home and turn whatever they want on and off with X10. There is no authentication whatsoever. Ironic, considering the company most known for X10 devices sold security equipment.

Now there do exist some wireless battery powered x10 devices (the MS16A motion sensor, for example or the DS10A door sensor). These are actually fairly solid devices, and I still use a good number of them in my home. (I have many DS16As that have been in daily use for more than 20 years)

It isn’t all bad, and there is no reason to throw it all out if it works for you. However, if you are buying new gear to automate with, there isn’t really a compelling reason to go back to X10. the modern solutions are cheaper, faster, more secure, and easier to work with.

I don’t know about theory, but the big practical advantage to ZigBee is that it works.

Sorry, that’s a shitty thing to say. I’m salty because the only time I tried X10 was 25 years ago, and the experience was less than great. Unreliable switching, spurious commands, slow performance, etc. Sending signals over the power wires sounds great in theory, but in practice there are all sorts of pitfalls, like resistive versus inductive loads, bridging circuits to different legs of two-phase power, or conflicting commands on the wire.

ZigBee has just worked for me, since it avoids all of the potential wiring issues. You just plug a device in, put it in pairing mode, and Home Assistant finds it, interrogates its capabilities, and adds it (by name) with the correct entities. No mucking about with addresses, or adding signal paths to the house wiring. As a mesh network, it’s quite robust, since most plugged-in devices act as repeaters.

The downside of ZigBee, of course, is that it may not work well in WiFi-saturated environments, since it uses the same 2.4GHz frequency band.

I’ve never really looked into X10.
A very brief look suggests that the signaling goes over the mains cables? If that’s correct, then the big thing for me would be that it separates the communication from mains electricity. Most people don’t like messing with 240v, unless they absolutely have to.
Which would mean more needs to be done by an electrician.

@RobotToaster @GreatAlbatross oh man, X10 was such junk. Terrible reliability, expensive, clunky. Always awkward as the units plugged into receptacles with little positioning flexibility, and a restrictive ecosystem with inflexible players tying it up in patents for so long. A couple of hundred bucks I blew there was totally wasted …about 20yrs.